KI Guy

I think the best way to label these might be a separate category or hyper with an asterisk. The problem with your line is thinking is that you don't get the sustained speed of the drops, (I actually rode both and Phantom is one of my all-time favorites), on those coasters. Whatever speed you get through the use of terrain is scrubbed off when you return back to the height the lift started at. Think of a 100 ft high coaster that goes into a 100 ft ravine. That's not as good as a 200 ft coaster because you'll only net 100 ft worth of speed from the drop.

Because a term is "new" (19 years old actually in this case) doesn't mean it has no meaning. You would look at me pretty funny if I called a walkie talkie a "smartphone" (also a newer word). As far as the argument goes (and the park and most people won't care), if KI was my park I would not call it a Giga just to try to avoid any perception of dishonesty by the guests.

It's a goofy trick to try to make it seem taller. You don't see anyone use drop LENGTH as a stat. You don't see The Beast bragging about its 500 ft LONG second drop! It looks solid. I like the name Orion better than Polaris, but Shooting Star is better than either! If this coaster is 80% of what Fury 325 is they'll have a very good coaster.

This may or may not be the case. However, I would not underestimate the effects of this "decoding". Over the last 25+ years we've went from most people maybe seeing a TV commercial or a newspaper ad of the new ride. Then came full ride POVs and full layouts released on the park's time. Now we have people digging up blueprints and posting them online before the previous season is even underway. I have assumed that speculation is good for business and subsequently early disclosure is bad for it. Every park at least acts as if this is the case. Logically it makes sense. One of the last things a park want to do is give someone a reason for not renewing the family's passes. "Let's just wait until the coaster." Once the habit is broken who knows if they'll come back. It's the same reason car companies don't talk about the upcoming all new 2020 model when the (5 year old design) 2019 model is still on the lots. There are two possible pathways in the future that I can forsee: 1) There will no longer be speculation when it comes to new KI rides OR 2) something will change with the policies/ordinances when it comes to new rider construction.

Remember that Knott’s is in Southern California near Disney. Most of the theming (or expectations of their being theming) already existed at the time Cedar Fair took over. Cedar Fair has done a great job with that park, but I don't think you'll see that level of theming at their other parks. Knott’s is influenced by Disney and the prospect of catering to at least some Disney cross shopers. Ohio market vs the Socal market is why we get Mystic Timbers and they get a renovated Calico Mine Ride. Both cool, different markets.

I don't mind the Haunt for what it is (although I mostly go to ride the coasters and the extra night rides are nice), but yes it should never be detrimental to the park during the regular season. Shuttering a former arcade during the spring and summer because it now houses a Haunted maze is stupid and lazy. I've never understood tolerating something as worse for the vast majority of the time for the purpose of making something better a small part of the time. (See also the new Royal Fountain).

After looking at photos online it does appear that the top observation area does consist of two decks. I don't recall ever going to the lower one myself, but I may have in the past. Photo credit: https://www.flickr.com/photos/longestaugust/7871291868

Shaggy are you talking about the 50 ft observation deck that has been closed to the public since probably the '80s?

I mean no offense to the hard workers of the landscaping department. I'm sure they execute to the highest level they can with the resources they're given. That goes for all departments I mentioned including food and entertainment. My point though was that Kings Island’s business model has changed (probably to an extent rightfully so), into more of a regular amusement park versus the original Coney Island meets Disneyland model. Coasters are now top priority and other facets are secondary. The fountains as originally built were a remnant of a time when aesthetics were a higher priority. It was nice to have them while still having world class coasters.

Cedar Fair has always had the same business model (not including the Ouimet era), build big and fast coasters for the cash cow parks and do just enough to the small ones to keep the status quo. They get an 'A' when it comes to adding coasters to the big parks and maintaining the ones they already have. In everything else (theming and landscaping, food, entertainment and special events, etc.) they are average or as you said "three steps short of great." The fountains are a particularly sad case because they were spectacular and reminiscent of a different time and a much different business model. (From what I gather early Kings Island was probably most comparable to modern day Dollywood or Busch Gardens).

It's interesting you say that. Personally, I don't think it's out of character for Cedar Fair at all.

Thank you, Ronny. My question is why are plans like this not found for every new coaster or even Kings Island's recent additions? Do people not care as much to check their city hall? Is there some sort of wink and nod between the parks and the cities to keep them "tucked away" until after the announcement? Do parks not file them until after the announcement, (doubt it)? Frankly the enthusiasts have sucked the life out of the 2020 announcement as even much of the local news have shown the plans. I can't imagine the park is pleased with all of this, but this might be the new norm unfortunately. I think I might sit out the next decoding/rumor coaster thread. We're far from the days of TR:TR when everyone knew next to nothing about what it was!

Exactly. Steel Vengeance is a blast from the drop to the brake. Just make the elements smaller!

It's definitely reimagined.

Yes, I'm aware. I meant keeping them. Cedar Fair has not.

I think the old names have a certain charm. It seems every new coaster name is a monster, an intimidating animal, or some mythical or powerful force/magic, etc. I think the scary theme is overdone, personally, but ultimately it won't be up to me!

Millennium Force: Cool name in 1999 for announcement and 2000. Outdated reference by 2001. What does it even mean? (Yes, I know a cheesy story explains it.) Intimidator 305: decent name, theme pretty good. Licensing fee and NASCAR popularity has been declining since even before its debut. Leviathan: Great, unique name that fitting a giant coaster. Fury 325: What does it even mean? Hopelessly generic. Shooting Star: Timeless. Throwback to Cincinnati history, everyone knows what a shooting star is. My point is Shooting Star has appeal even though it may not be the trendiest name.

Good: Flight of Fear, Drop Zone, Kids Area(s), Royal Fountain, recaR, Park Map, Fearfest, Production and Presentation of shows. No pay to cut system. Waterworks to Boomerang Bay. Season Pass prevews. TRAMS! Bad: End of Winterfest. Loss of Flying Eagles, Italian Job Ugly: Son of Beast, Tomb Raider: The Ride. Park cleanliness and upkeep (later years).

Great minds think alike.

I could not have put it better myself. The new fountains are just that "like many others you can find in many other places." THAT is the crux of my problem. Those old pedestals were very unique and were unlike any fountains I've seen (outside of KD).

For those that estimated the length at 5,xxxx ft, (thank you for your work), does that account for the vertical (z axis)? I know you would have no way to know that outside of the estimate for the lift. Just wondering because that would bring the length up significantly. Maybe another 1000 ft?

Instead of Orion or Polaris how about Shooting Star? That would be a great throwback especially since it's in the Coney Mall section. Imagine a modern version of this signage with an LED shooting star!

@BoddaH1994 any chance the pedestals come back? The fountains are nice, but to me they're just generic in comparison to the iconic pedestal fountains. Also the higher spray height mists people on International Street.

I seriously doubt Winterfest had anything to do with it. All incarnations of Winterfest until last year did just fine with (all six of) the pedestals in the fountain. I think someone looked at the estimate for replacement or refurbished pedestals and I thought "we're going to go another direction". I hope someday the same decision is not made for the Eiffel Tower.

Yes, they could have, but I'd imagine it was a cost issue. Beware of anytime something simpler is pitched as "modern", it usually means cheaper When I think of the Kings Island fountain, I think of those pedestals. Here's to hoping this is righted at some point in the future a la the Glockenspiel, which they did an EXCELLENT job on.