disco2000

For your reading pleasure, see also these threads... There are probably others you can find with the search thread, but these have over 100 replies you can read through to get a sense of what you are looking for...

^If Cedar Fair wants to truly do something about this, then report these videos to YouTube as being illegal videos so that they are removed. Next ban Wesley Redding for his POV on Steel Vengeance and Millennium Force. Revoke season pass if he has one and whoever else was with him. Ban him from the park. Run a promo video that says this is what happens if you do this. Next ban Mike Boilard for his POV of his little princess on Iron Dragon and Pipe Scream. Revoke the whole family's season passes. Ban them from park and ...(see above).. Next do a simple search of YouTube and find these other videos and do the same as above... Until the park does something to get these removed from social media, they will continue to be posted. It really isn't that hard to figure out who most of the people are that post this stuff and then cross-reference the season pass holder names to find said person... Until they set an example like Kentucky Kingdom of what will happen if you have a cell phone out on the ride, it will continue to happen. Make some of these people poster boys for breaking the law and a lot of people will stop (there will always be some that still do) but let's get real with enforcement!!! With an injury from a flying cell phone, the lawyer will have a field day finding these videos and using as evidence that CF doesn't care...

Appears to have been better than average attendance this week. Lots of daily admission today it seems and lots of spending in park. Food lines most places have been out the door most of today. Weather certainly a factor. More cash purchases than I have seen in awhile...

And yet at 9:30am this morning SIX stock was valued at $71.05 and is currently trading at $67.47... Meanwhile at 9:30am this morning FUN stock was valued at $57.90 and is currently trading at $58.54... Why is SIX down despite this record first half report and why is FUN up despite its quarterly report...perhaps people recognize why SIX went up (bought revenue and attendance with new parks) and recognize FUN has room to improve with their current offerings... Just go have FUN...

I am certainly in the same mindset of "I see much more potential and want the park to be the best"... Regarding mascots/theming/experience in the park, I think that part of the problem is that KI is seen as a season pass park when compared to other parks it competes against and as such I think a lot of the atmosphere is not noticeably appreciated by the guests that attend, yet at the same time it not being there subconsciously negatively impacts guests opinion of the park. I think back to the early Paramount days and the Star Trek and other characters walking around and you wouldn't see them get the same attention as characters at other parks. Not many guests would stop or even form a line to get their picture with them. Did that influence management decision at the time to scale back the amount of characters roaming Kings Island? Take a look at the current Lunch with the Peanuts Gang at KI versus Carowinds - at the end they do like 3 songs for a meet and greet with the characters and at Carowinds the line is long and sometimes not everyone gets their picture because the three songs are over, yet at KI the characters are for the most part ignored and just stand there most of the time (sometimes they get a crowd for meet and greet but not as consistent as other parks). Or the relative lack of lines within the park when the characters are out. We also all recognize the difference in intellectual property rights that dictates what characters are at what parks...but that is a whole different discussion. Other than enthusiasts, most of the folks I talk to see Back Lot, Drop Tower, Invertigo, Bat, etc. as basically the same ride as when Paramount had the park, it is just a new name (can you believe that!). In other words, the theming was lost/not appreciated by them. Does that mentality drive decisions at KI? I loved the whole Top Gun experience and felt a let down when it became Flight Deck and wonder what they would do to the theming of that ride with a planned sequel for next year if it were still Top Gun...(and I realize the IP costs associated with keeping it the Top Gun name and why it was changed) Think about the Banshee gift shop being eliminated - the merchandise offerings helped with the overall atmosphere of the park even if it didn't make any money. Now a first time guests walks through and is like what is this... So one has to wonder does the fact that KI being a season pass park impact what attention they put into the little things? Are they suffering from the "we are Cedar Fair and people will attend regardless" mentality? Even if exit surveys say people don't care about theming, etc., the lack of it does leave an impression as well whether the guest realizes it or not...

Sounds like people are tired of FUN and went to SIX It appears that it can be attributed to new parks added to their portfolio and year round operations of a park and a much better job of upselling daily entries into season passes as well as some additional membership tiers and licensing agreements... What changes will CF make now...

It is also interesting that of the CF parks having Winterfest that Great America and KI are the only ones not slated to open New Year's Eve...

And since my post about Kings Dominion Winterfest 14 hours ago lol, today they added their Winterfest schedule to their website. They show a December 31st opening as Carowinds did before they removed their calendar...

Now that is a valid argument to my old person's post and I certainly agree with everything you said! Sorry, I was having a grumpy old person moment when I posted mine because I heard a commotion outside and see that half the neighborhood and cars were being TP'd and egged by the neighborhood punks lol. Certainly in retrospect there were a lot less rules in years past...and the reason for every new rule/law/regulation is the direct result of stupidity of someone that necessitated the rule to be developed in the first place. If we didn't constantly have people doing stupid things, these additional rules wouldn't need to be created... I still believe though that overall our society respect towards each other and rules/policies/etc. have declined from yesteryear.

Is that a job the ride op really wants to be doing? What happened to guest that had cell phone out in line - were they removed from line? What happened if the guest ignored the ride-op?

And I suspect that the ride-ops don't like the new policy and don't want to be enforcers. Let's look at it from a different perspective - these teenage kids have their heart set to apply for rides and operate their favorite ride, not be a policy enforcer (other than like seat belts must be fastened but you get the idea). Unfortunately our society has changed and park operations have not adapted. Look at historic photos of amusement parks and people are showing up in suits and dresses and compare that to what we see today (I am making a point to that in a minute lol). Society of old generally respected rules and procedures and chain of command, etc. (always exceptions I know because we still had police and jails then too). Current society is me-centered and all about themselves and they are entitled to their opinion AND their opinion is always right, even if it isn't. We must have a selfie while driving and FaceTime our roller coaster ride and try to get a POV to go viral on YouTube. We are turning into a disrespectful society - look no further than all the negativity on social media. What ever happened to if you don't have anything nice to say then don't say anything at all and be respectful of those enforcing rules, laws, polices, etc. Look at the disrespectfulness parents have towards ride-ops doing their job and enforcing the height requirements. The people smoking in the queue and when asked to put it out by a ride op they are ignored... I would suspect if you ask anyone that has worked for a long time in customer service (or being a ride op) and they can probably confirm that their dealings with the public have become disrespectful and negative as time goes on. I think amusement parks need to consider ways to combat this other than more of the same. Adding more signs with no enforcement isn't going to cut it. One suggestion would be to increase security staff and have someone in a security outfit be the one doing the height measurements and enforcing the policies at the rides and not ride-ops. Most teenage kids that wanted to work rides does not want to be an enforcer, so decrease the ride staff and replace it with the policy enforcer security staff. That doesn't mean that some of the public will still not be disrespectful when their child doesn't meet the height requirement or security takes someone's phone, but it would probably have more teeth than a teenage ride-op that doesn't want the confrontation to begin with and is counting the minutes until they can get back into the ride station! Make the penalty severe too - kick them out of the park, take their phone away for the day and they can retrieve when they leave, revoke season pass, etc. But simply adding a sign and not enforcing it will just result in more knee-jerk responses and ruin it for those that know how to properly secure their items... For the ride-ops on this forum - if you are comfortable saying so, would you agree that you would rather not be the enforcer of these policies and let someone in security handle these? And get off my lawn

Well when you put it that way, everything in this forum is #FirstWorldProblems. Just off the top of my head with no searching I can think of the following complaints in this forum: ERT isn't long enough ERT doesn't include the right rides ERT should include more of the park Season pass holders should get more benefits KI should have a member's favorite soft drink Meal plan duration between meals is too long KI needs a giga Winterfest should be open longer and the list goes on...you see my point... For those that read the thread, BoddaH wasn't "complaining" - as a long term park goer and member of this forum and former moderator he was simply educating the forum on a problem he had experienced and wasn't aware of the 15 minute rule and obviously thought others should know about. That FAQ about 15 minutes could have been added after said plan was purchased - nobody knows for sure since they don't have revision date on when things are modified. And in all his years attending the park he never experienced that. When was the 15 minute gap implemented - I don't think it was during the first year - certainly it was in response to the abuse happening with the drink plan. BoddaH even mentioned he was fine with the 15 minute gap, and his issue was that from a communications standpoint it should be front and center on the purchase page just like the meal plan times are was the point he was trying to make and is being lost by everyone. I guess we should just shut down this #FirstWorldProblems forum

Yes, they removed the Winterfest 2018 calendar last week. They had a lot more days and an earlier opening time of 2pm on Saturdays. A few weeks prior to that they had started removing operating days off their calendar, including weekends between Haunt and Winterfest. No doubt they are taking a serious look at what days to open and hours. Is it a result of the poor quarter or simply coincidental? The question will be will we see KI Winterfest calendar removed as the revise it or will it stay as is. What about other parks having Winterfest new this year - will they already cut back on what they planned? Kings Dominion has not released their calendar yet. And of course as you mentioned, will anything be cut from KI Winterfest... Keep in mind CF operating calendars always have the "Dates and hours subject to change" disclaimer, but it is probably good from a communication standpoint to remove the calendar until they are sure it is good. Imagine people making plans to go to Carowinds Winterfest on December 31st and not come back and look at the calendar and find they eliminated it (if that is what they do)...

According to the official KI replier on the official KI FB page, yes your BAF guest gets in on ERT...your mileage may vary...

It seems that ticket price integrity is being compromised more and more... I would think this is the knee-jerk reaction to CF attendance and revenue declines this year and continuing during this third quarter. What if we see BAF during Haunt and Winterfest... I wouldn't be surprised if during the 2019 season pass sale coming up soon that they offer purchase a pass before September 30th and get in the rest of 2018 with a 2019 season pass. We know under CF they have usually offered a visit once offer, but I think we have to go back to Paramount days for get in the rest of the season offers. And I fully expect those that currently have a season pass will complain that they are getting nothing special from their renewal while those purchasing a new pass get additional benefits... I picked September 30th for a reason...to increase revenue during this present quarter and increase attendance during 4th quarter. Should those numbers be disappointing, then that deadline would be extended...just like gold pass...

Ask Universal about their dueling coaster...between that and the loose article issues at Steel Vengeance at Cedar Point, I don't see a dueling coaster in our future... Mean Streak at Cedar Point was remodeled to Steel Vengeance and Hurler at Kings Dominion was remodeled to Twisted Timbers...How is that working out for them in terms of operation and attendance... Many of the bathrooms have been updated...which one dates back to the 70s?

Even if they wash them before they enter the park (doubtful) I can't tell you how many people I see leave a bathroom stall with cup in hand and don't wash their hands after using the facilities... Be thankful that they got away from food workers making your food and touching those souvenir cups to refill and went to self dispensing...at least now the workers haven't touched an unsanitary cup and then made your food...unless the people in front of you had the hot chocolate refillable cups at Winterfest...

You and a couple hundred thousand people amongst the CF chain are apparently doing the same thing! I have mentioned to others and this certainly validates what I have said that Winterfest has caused KI fatigue. Now that the park is open for so much longer, folks are getting their "fix" more months of the year and without a long off-season, many are still burned out from the previous year and are feeling like your sentiment of visit later...The park is certainly counting on having a great Winterfest and CF is banking on a great Winterfest turnout in their parks that have it, but what if the weather is really bad and the crowds stay away or people feel oh we did that last year and stay away this year...CF could then be looking at 3 consecutive quarters of down results to start 2019...what impacts will that have short-term and long term?

Wow - am I surprised at the backlash this post has got from forum members - by many of which that are quick to cry foul for the tiniest of things. A member was simply presenting his experience and to educate those that may not know or have experienced the same thing. Let's point to some facts and inconsistencies: KI has demonstrated changing things after purchases - Haunt is included with season pass then it isn't then it back is; changes to meal plan (documented in my post above) and then changed back. Changes to meal plan locations and offerings even during the season (including this year). Now granted many of these were "corrected" probably in part to comments expressed in this forum, but some stick. You are not provided with a written contract stipulating what you are purchasing and agreeing to. Sure there is language on the back of the season pass and on-line. But it has a catch all that items are subject to change at any time and without any notice. Contrast that to many other items with terms and conditions - when there are changes to your credit card or bank account terms and conditions, you are presented with those usually in the mail. FAQ's can be developed and included at any time without notice. When was the 15 minute in-between FAQ added - was it before a single person purchased a drink plan...maybe but I doubt it? A competent attorney could argue that FAQs are not legally binding... Some people will fill their cup and drink half or all of it before leaving the drink dispenser and then proceed to top it off - I am sure that is not the program intent and could be argued as a way of circumventing the 15-minute rule. I see people do that ALL THE TIME. What about those with the souvenir cup - due to inconsistencies of people operating the register, many people never have their cup scanned so they are essentially exempt from the 15-minute rule - now that is not the pass holder problem it is a training issue. Some CF parks will not scan (or at least didn't on days I was there). What about those with the souvenir cup that circumvent the register and go straight to the drink dispenser at the food places - they have made a conscious choice to exempt themselves from the 15-minute rule. It is harder to do at the drink only refresh stations (partly because they are rarely open LOL), but it happens ALL THE TIME at the food places. Since they changed the Chicken Shack exit doors to be locked from outside and added the queue line it doesn't happen there as much anymore, but at Panda, Festhaus, International Skyline, and Hanks it happens way too frequently. Spend a little bit of time at Skyline and watch how many people come thru the back of the line and refill their souvenir cup without ever having their cup scanned. And yes, I have seen forum members do that... In short, basically I have noticed that those with the disposable cup option are the ones that the 15-minute rule seems to target the most as they have to go thru the line to get a new cup. Although I have seen some that keep the cup and do what those with a souvenir cup do...

No they changed after purchase... and thankfully the revised terms never went into effect at KI hopefully partly in response to feedback in this thread...but they could have...did it impact Knott's briefly? One of your quotes from that thread "I just wish that they had either finalized redemption rules when dining plans went on sale or refrained from mentioning them at all."

What about when they changed the meal plan window several years ago after people had purchased their plans...I guess the "subject to change" is the catch all phrase We may recall the healthy debate that change brought on this forum during the off-season.

What about no re-entry after 7pm during Haunt season...

We are a fan site and only the Banshee gift shop has been mentioned. I have counted 12 different types of "cuts" since the quarterly report was announced and that is lumping some things together or the list could be longer. Maybe some are purely coincidental... I suspect that collectively as a forum our attendance numbers are down as well. Let's get to the park and spend money. If we as fans haven't noticed the cuts, the cuts will continue until they are readily obvious to the once per decade visitor. By then it may be too late. I heard some funny they are doing "insert comment here" to save money anecdotes, so people are noticing. I watched a dude with a souvenir cup on Banshee walk up to line and was told he couldn't take it on and he chucked it into the garbage and mumbled he wasn't going to come back to this place anyway as he couldn't find places to refill the cup. He certainly didn't experience #KIBestDay and many aren't either. Droves of people certainly didn't on Friday. Attendance was low today. Walk-on for a night-time Beast front-row seat. Has the precedent now been set that the park may close if the guest count gets too low or it rains, so people will now only come when there is no chance or rain? It appears that way reading FB comments. Certainly not a way to increase attendance. I am not expecting the next quarterly report to be any more encouraging, which could really have an impact on Haunt and Winterfest...

Unfortunately lots of stuff coming out - basically anything in a back pocket is fair game to be tossed - phones/wallets/etc. Lots of wallets have been lost despite Velcro back pockets! Maybe this is baby steps in the big picture to address it and will get more stringent as time goes on. I think the ride ops are going to hear a lot of "I could have my phone with me last time I rode it"...(cross threading from the yelling at ride ops thread number one complaint with kids measurements)

^Oh the irony in that. That is classic! Love it! Thanks for posting LOL