I mean it's somewhat isolated from the rest of the rides, why do you suppose that is?

So we could hear more Kenny Loggins on the long walk?

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I can only think of the topography being a reason to place it where it is.

So we could hear more Kenny Loggins on the long walk?

Without the long walk to the ride, the "Highway to the Danger Zone" would only be a side street to the Danger Zone.

The location makes more sense with the current name/theme than it did with an aircraft carrier in the woods...

I've thought about this before. The deepest footer is something like 70' into the ground. Makes me think that they surveyed the land and where it is was the most suitable location for the technology at the time.

I've thought about this before. The deepest footer is something like 70' into the ground. Makes me think that they surveyed the land and where it is was the most suitable location for the technology at the time.

If a footer for Top Gun was 70' in the ground, how deep might the footer(s) be for the Eiffel Tower or Drop Tower?

What is the deepest footer at KI?

I think that's the deepest. Maybe CoastersRZ can fill us in a little better but typically how deep a footer is depends on how deep the bedrock is, not how big the structure is.

Maybe they was planning more rides in that area.

Maybe they was planning more rides in that area.

What area exactly?

Son of Beast didn't come for another 7 years after Top Gun opened.

Don't forget at the time Lion Country Safari was alive and well in the area as well.

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It was ALL about the view of the campground.

I'd like to think the front office staff took turns throwing darts at a park map and then someone's name was drawn at random to decide where the new ride would be.

^^ I forgot about the campground, I think you got it !

I'd like to think the front office staff took turns throwing darts at a park map and then someone's name was drawn at random to decide where the new ride would be.

Nah. It was planned during the Carl Lindner days, perhaps the only CEO ever to micromanage far more than Dick Kinzel ever dreamed of. The imperious Lindner would not allow employee input into such a thing, with or without darts.

I've thought about this before. The deepest footer is something like 70' into the ground. Makes me think that they surveyed the land and where it is was the most suitable location for the technology at the time.

If a footer for Top Gun was 70' in the ground, how deep might the footer(s) be for the Eiffel Tower or Drop Tower?

What is the deepest footer at KI?

They are technically footings. And the depth and size of footings depends on many factors. The forces of the ride, the bearing capacity of the soil, the soil conditions, how far below grade their is firm bearing soil, etc. I believe that The Bat`s deepest footing is around 50' deep. I do not know how deeps the Eiffel Tower`s footing is. But it doesn`t necessarily have to be deeper than The Bat`s footings. It is likely larger in terms of area, so that it can disperse the point loads over a larger soil area. Footings do not always need to bear on bedrock either. Sometimes bedrock can be so far below grade that it is cost prohibitive to do so. I know that both Drop Tower and Wind seeker use piles and a pile cap for their foundations. Not sure if the Eiffel Tower uses a similar foundation system.

Think of it like this. If The Bat has a load of 10.000 pounds coming down on a footing, and the bearing capacity of the soil is 200 pounds per square foot, then it would need a footing equal to 50 square feet to obtain the 10,000 pound force that is being exerted by the ride. (which is just over 7 feet square). If the Eiffel Tower has a load of 30,000 pounds coming down on a footing with the same bearing capacity, then its footing would need to be 150 square feet to be able to handle the loads. However, if the soil conditions were such that there was only 150 pounds of bearing capacity at the Eiffel Tower location instead of 200, then it would need a footing that is 200 square feet in area.

Does that make sense? Obviously, the above example is a simplified demonstration, and there are many other factors involved. All the numbers I used above were created just for the demonstration and do not reflect actual design loads for either ride.

Actual ride foundations are designed by licensed structural engineers in conjunction with a soils report for the site conditions.

I hope this lengthy post sheds some light on the subject. I know it was a bit technical in nature. Sorry that I have not been posting as much lately. With three jobs and still getting stuff set up in my new house, I do not have much time these days to hop on here.

It is something of an oddity that is fondly accepted as one of Kings Island's little 'quirks': that disproportionately long, picturesque queue that takes you to the 5th-shortest-duration* coaster in the park.

*(112 seconds; source: rcdb.com (FAAC, WE and Invertigo all tied for 4th at 90 seconds)).

They are technically footings. And the depth and size of footings depends on many factors. The forces of the ride, the bearing capacity of the soil, the soil conditions, how far below grade their is firm bearing soil, etc. I believe that The Bat`s deepest footing is around 50' deep. I do not know how deeps the Eiffel Tower`s footing is. But it doesn`t necessarily have to be deeper than The Bat`s footings. It is likely larger in terms of area, so that it can disperse the point loads over a larger soil area. Footings do not always need to bear on bedrock either. Sometimes bedrock can be so far below grade that it is cost prohibitive to do so. I know that both Drop Tower and Wind seeker use piles and a pile cap for their foundations. Not sure if the Eiffel Tower uses a similar foundation system.

Now, to clarify about what a pile cap is (for those of us who aren't experts)... is it a concrete base that has some sort of anchor system dug into the bedrock? I just want to make sure I'm interpreting what you're saying correctly. Also, would this system be used primarily when the bedrock is too deep to be cost effective, or are there other factors that would favor this model?

Let us return to the original question....

There is room back there for more things. I believe the area will continue to be developed now that Banshee has been built.

However, why Top Gun/Flight Deck/New Bat was put there to begin with - no clue.

Wasn't there a change in ownership b/w the design of Top Gun/The Bat and when it officially opened? I can't remember what the original name was going to be before Paramount purchased the park, but while SOB may have come significantly later, the original plan may have called for a coaster or two, flats, etc... in that area and those plans could have all been changed or delayed when the park was sold.

Ryan,

To answer your question about pile caps. There is a concrete base, which maybe visible sticking out of the ground, and is made of concrete and essentially ties all the piles together. Think of a pile cap as sort of a beam sitting on top of lots of columns, which are the piles. The piles do not necessarily have to go down to bedrock (which would be end bearing piles). They just have to go down to strata of soil that has sufficient bearing capacity. Sometimes friction piles are used when bedrock is too far below grade. Friction piles working by transferring the load from the pile cap into the soil through friction along the length of the pile.

There are other factors involved with using piles as a foundation system. Sometimes there is a week layer of soil close to the surface, and then there is good bearing soil some 20-30 below grade. In this instance, the piles are used to essentially support the building on the good soil, while not putting any load on the bad soil. Clay, for example, is a bad soil to put foundations on, since it expands when wet. In this area of the country, there is a lot of clay in the soil.

Before the structural engineer determines which type of foundation to use, they will look at the soil cores which are taken at various locations on the site. These soil cores will determine the soil bearing capacity as well as the conditions on the site. With this information, the engineer can decide with the project owner what foundation is most cost effective. Soil cores are usually taken long before any active construction is done, since these are needed to design and produce the drawings from which the building/ride will be built.

I hope that makes sense.

Wasn't there a change in ownership b/w the design of Top Gun/The Bat and when it officially opened? I can't remember what the original name was going to be before Paramount purchased the park, but while SOB may have come significantly later, the original plan may have called for a coaster or two, flats, etc... in that area and those plans could have all been changed or delayed when the park was sold.

Yes, the Arrow Suspended coaster that became "Top Gun" was already well into the planning and development process when Paramount Pictures bought the parks...too far into the process to change the plans for Paramount's first season. (Which is why PKI's "Top Gun" ended up as an Arrow Suspended instead of a B&M Inverted that PGA and Carowinds received, or maybe we would have gotten the "Days of Thunder" motion simulator a year earlier than we actually did...but I'm guessing one or the other would have occurred if the timing would have worked out differently...)

I've heard two possible names for the original version of Top Gun (and, I have no idea whether either one is correct, or simply Internet legend which has taken on a life of its own over the years)--one was "Thunder Run" and the other was "Swoop" (with a bird theme). Of the two, I think "Swoop" seems to fit well with the location of the coaster among the tree tops. (It definitely makes a lot more sense than an aircraft carrier out in the middle of the woods <g>).

They are technically footings.

I give up.

What is the difference between a footer and a footing?

A post secondary education and a lot of money...

A Footing is used in Construction while a Footer is used in Typography.

A footing is also important in mountain climbing while a footer can result in Subway litigation.

When The Bat(Top Gun) first opened in Lion Country Safari you had to walk around the Monorail. Their also used to be animals under the ride at one time.

I thought you just walked right under it?

You did walk under the monorail. The monorail crossed above the queue and exit immediately before you walk under the maintenance bridge in the queue line.

So wait was the "tunnel" in Top Gun/Bat's queue a maintenance road to Lion County?

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