Here's something I've been trying to figure out. When people refer to "horrible transitions" on Arrow Custom Looping coasters what are they referring too? Only thing I can think of on per say Vortex is the break run. You drop down the hill, go through 2 loops then the ride almost slows to a stop, and then it goes through a corkscrew, and a batwing before taking you back to the loading station. The transistion from the double loop to the corkscrew/batwing sucks and I admit that. is this what everyone is referring too? Just curious.

The transition from the brake run is awful and always has been... At the bottom of the dip before the corkscrew..... SLAM!!!! (Sorry, don't know how else to describe it)

I do know in my older age the corkscrew is harder to tolerate than when I was younger... the ride is rough, and your head gets jerked around quite a bit during it. The Vortex trains seem to go down the hill perfectly, go through the 2 loops perfectly and then they just stop, and seem to struggle through the double corkscrew and batwing. I think with maybe more speed the the corkscrew wouldnt' be as bad, but its just that the train goes through it so slowly! IF this is what people talk about when they say "horrible transitions" than I do agree. with the way the brake run works where its at and the slow speed through the corkscrew, it almost seems like they just slapped 2 coasters together to make one gigantic record breaking coaster (and yes I know right now the 'tex ain't breaking any records but when it opened it broke a bunch). While it would shorten the ride length, if the coaster would go through the double loops, then around the helix, and through the corkscrew and batwing without a brake run, the transition would work perfectly instead of feeling like 2 coasters bolted together!

I do know in my older age the corkscrew is harder to tolerate than when I was younger... the ride is rough, and your head gets jerked around quite a bit during it. The Vortex trains seem to go down the hill perfectly, go through the 2 loops perfectly and then they just stop, and seem to struggle through the double corkscrew and batwing. I think with maybe more speed the the corkscrew wouldnt' be as bad, but its just that the train goes through it so slowly! IF this is what people talk about when they say "horrible transitions" than I do agree. with the way the brake run works where its at and the slow speed through the corkscrew, it almost seems like they just slapped 2 coasters together to make one gigantic record breaking coaster (and yes I know right now the 'tex ain't breaking any records but when it opened it broke a bunch). While it would shorten the ride length, if the coaster would go through the double loops, then around the helix, and through the corkscrew and batwing without a brake run, the transition would work perfectly instead of feeling like 2 coasters bolted together!

I couldn't agree more....

When people talk about rough transitions they are talking about the fast and painful banking on the ride.

Like this:

And riders who ride frequently get used to those transitions and adopt their riding style such that they no longer notice those transitions as much. A perfect piece of evidence to show this is that those who grew up on and ride Vortex a lot despise Great Adventure's Great American Scream Machine...and the locals up Jersey way who venture to Kings Island nearly all think Vortex is far rougher than GASM. It's all because of their relative familiarity with the local coaster. Then there are those strange people like me who have ridden the coaster at the further park far more than at the relatively local park...and think the one they have ridden the most is the smoothest.

In any event, Ron Toomer didn't do transitions well. After he left Arrow, the coasters got really good. See Tennessee Tornado. Better yet, ride it! Compared to other Arrows, no rough transitions on that baby, even if you've never ridden it before.

^I don't find The Vortex rough at all. I love it. And Ronny Toomer didn't do TT?

Nope, he had left the company by then. . .

So Ronny leaves and the coasters get good?

And then the company ends up changing hands yet again.

And I have never, ever heard ANYone refer to Mr. Toomer as Ronny. Few even dared to call him Ron, much less Ronny.

OUCH!

^Well I just stick my head out of the restraints and I'm fine.

Neck Pain! It hurts so bad!

I don't mind going through the corkscrews slow, unlike some of the others, because I like the feeling of falling out of your seat, but I agree with everyone about the brake run being painful before the corkscrews.

The rough transitions I hear people refer to is mostly the turn after the first drop where it curves left, straightens, then curves left again. That's the only poor transition I would say on the ride.

The two worst transition parts on the whole ride are after the first drop on the second turn where you go from banking to straight that one hurts and the brake run itself is just horrible.

Who calls Mr. Toomer Ronny? Thats in my book a disgrace to one of the if not the greatest designer of all time.

Who calls Mr. Toomer Ronny? Thats in my book a disgrace to one of the if not the greatest designer of all time.

Wow, I ment nothing by it. It's just a name I called him. If no one else calls him that then whatever.

Yeah I do have to agree, with the transitions being a bit rough. I do think for me it makes it worse being 6'1", and having big shoulders doesn't help ether.

I think the banking is a little too abrupt...both on 'tex and Adventure Express, although it fits in with AE's theme...but you go from flat track, and then BAM suddenly your sideways and your skull is cracked from where you bashed it on the restraint. The ride should "slide" smoothly into a corner, and back out again IMO. I guess a better term to use is "roll into/out of"... ^^and no, being big doesn't help much either, I'm 6 even with wide everything, so I'm basically pinned in and cant adjust to the ride...

I know what you mean about feeling pinned, Vortex does that to me. Were my hole body in pinned down, but my head is flopping back and forth like a piece of meat.

ok, it's really not that bad if you sit in the back on Vortex especialy the brake run becuz you slow down befor yiou are jerked again plus you get great airtime!

OUCH!

I'd like to know what in hell the designer was thinking when he put this in instead of leaving it banked.

Yeah I don't know what they were thinking, in that last picture. The back seat is ok but, It still try's to give me a whiplash feeling. It would help if the park would install head extenders, other Arrow coasters have them. Tennessee Tornado has them, that makes the ride enjoyable.

The two worst transition parts on the whole ride are after the first drop on the second turn where you go from banking to straight that one hurts and the brake run itself is just horrible.

Who calls Mr. Toomer Ronny? Thats in my book a disgrace to one of the if not the greatest designer of all time.

But why on earth would Anton Schwarzkopf care what anyone called Mr. Toomer?

Terpy, running for the door (and who does not insist on being called either Mr. Interpreter or Dr. Interpreter)

Though I never rode it, I understand Drachen Fire, another Mr. Toomer creation, had such bad transitions that no one would ride it (again and again) and it was sold for scrap after a few years of SBNO.

http://www.rcdb.com/id112.htm

But, my - what a beautiful machine, eh?

Drachen Fire indeed had horrid transitions. It did not have NO ridership, but it did have very few repeat riders. It was first modified, then removed...And it did operate for seven seasons (though it closed in July during its last), after all...

Another Arrow I will NOT be thanking "Ronny" for anytime soon is Predator at Darien Lake!!!! Ouch, ouch, ouch, ouch, OUCH!!!!

Huh? What on earth did Ron Toomer or Arrow have to do with Predator? I thought that was Dinn & Summers..and those terrible rather unique trains from PTC...that fortunately cannot be found on many other US coasters...the linkages on those things are rather unique...thankfully.

^^Whoops!! I meant Viper! (see what happens when your park is stock full of generic names! )

OUCH!

Woah I never even noticed it was like that! No wonder my neck neck gets a beating there!