Whatever it is that is under construction at Kings Island has been in planning for a lot longer than eighteen months, already.

Well, the most this coaster could have been planned so far is about 22 months.

Whatever it is that is under construction at Kings Island has been in planning for a lot longer than eighteen months, already.

Well, the most this coaster could have been planned so far is about 22 months.

Oh, really? Please explain Behemoth! It is more than possible that both these coasters (assuming the second is liken unto the first, if there is a second) were actually planned by Paramount Parks...

Whatever it is that is under construction at Kings Island has been in planning for a lot longer than eighteen months, already.

Well, the most this coaster could have been planned so far is about 22 months.

Oh, really? Please explain Behemoth! It is more than possible that both these coasters (assuming the second is liken unto the first, if there is a second) were actually planned by Paramount Parks...

Only if they're going to put gravel down where Swan Lake was.

If they do, it's a key that this was a Paramount Plan.

Oh, I have no doubt that if it was a Paramount Parks plan, Cedar Fair had the opportunity to and most likely did make some changes...it's pretty apparent when you look at Behemoth that Cedar Fair had input into the process!

Oh, really? Please explain Behemoth! It is more than possible that both these coasters (assuming the second is liken unto the first, if there is a second) were actually planned by Paramount Parks...

Yes really. Behemoth was over $20,000,000. http://themeparks.about.com/od/rollercoast...BehemothPre.htm

According to this:

http://allenarena.blogspot.com/2006_05_01_archive.html

- 2007 capital investments and additions already in place, Cedar Fair will honor Paramount commitments, though no attractions over $20 million will be added

And the price of steel has escalated greatly since then...I bet it was originally planned to be under $20 million US (the Canadian dollar also strengthened...).

Yes the Canadian dollar is just over, if not equal to the American dollar today.

Back when the transaction happened the Canadian dollar to the American dollar was 10 to 15%.

But as we all know, there will be stipulations in a contract dealing with raw materials. The materials would have already been quoted a certain price the day of the contract signing.

So, neither Behemoth or KI's project were scheduled to be built by Paramount.

...according to your logic...

I still say there is a very good chance it was.

In any event, we can agree to disagree while still being agreeable. I respect you and your judgment, we just differ on this matter...

Perhaps I should have put it another way:

Given the facts, neither Behemoth or KI's project were scheduled to be built by Paramount.

You can put it however you want...I do not reach the same conclusion given the same facts...

Could it be possible that the coaster manufacturer was in talks with Paramount, maybe to the planning stage (things just getting on paper) when CF bought the park?

And maybe that estimate that I got was for time to manufacturer that actual parts.

I wonder if people at the Clermont Steel Plant are told what/where the track is for.

Yes they do. Here is a picture I found online of the track for Patriot. Blow it up and check out the label.

I would think its VERY unlikely that the track is not made this far in advanced. I'm not going to speculate where the track is going, however the last time I heard, it take roughly 18 months from conception to opening.

Yes it is. Track destined for "World's of Fun" was sitting in the front lot, and preparations at the park were pretty much where Kings Island is now. Some land modification, some new footers - but not enough to say for sure they were getting a coaster.

Perhaps I should have put it another way:

Given the facts, neither Behemoth or KI's project were scheduled to be built by Paramount.

Given what facts? I believe they said they would honor the 2007 capital investments and commitments. Not to mention, they also would go on later to say in their conference calls that they were going honor the financial resources but not the exact same "attractions." I.E. The money commited to 2007 expansion was used to relocate Firehawk rather than used for what CBS' Paramount Parks had set it aside for. I'm sure Cedar Fair made changes, but its most likely that Paramount, especially with Behemoth, had these plans in the works a long time ago given how long it takes to design, plan, get permits, etc. I seriously doubt CF pulled off the whole design process for Behemoth from when they acquired the parks in mid 2006, had construction already under way by late 2007, and have it ready now. They must have had some prior plans by PP then added their own. In fact, given what other sources have said, I'd be willing to bet PP had attractions like these planned, put them to the side when they went to CBS, and then Cedar Fair picked them back up.

Given what facts? I believe they said they would honor the 2007 capital investments and commitments. Not to mention, they also would go on later to say in their conference calls that they were going honor the financial resources but not the exact same "attractions." I.E. The money commited to 2007 expansion was used to relocate Firehawk rather than used for what CBS' Paramount Parks had set it aside for. I'm sure Cedar Fair made changes, but its most likely that Paramount, especially with Behemoth, had these plans in the works a long time ago given how long it takes to design, plan, get permits, etc. I seriously doubt CF pulled off the whole design process for Behemoth from when they acquired the parks in mid 2006, had construction already under way by late 2007, and have it ready now. They must have had some prior plans by PP then added their own. In fact, given what other sources have said, I'd be willing to bet PP had attractions like these planned, put them to the side when they went to CBS, and then Cedar Fair picked them back up.

I'm going to agree on this one. I would imagine they had plans set aside that they integrated into the paramount parks.

Given what facts? I believe they said they would honor the 2007 capital investments and commitments. Not to mention, they also would go on later to say in their conference calls that they were going honor the financial resources but not the exact same "attractions." I.E. The money commited to 2007 expansion was used to relocate Firehawk rather than used for what CBS' Paramount Parks had set it aside for. I'm sure Cedar Fair made changes, but its most likely that Paramount, especially with Behemoth, had these plans in the works a long time ago given how long it takes to design, plan, get permits, etc. I seriously doubt CF pulled off the whole design process for Behemoth from when they acquired the parks in mid 2006, had construction already under way by late 2007, and have it ready now. They must have had some prior plans by PP then added their own. In fact, given what other sources have said, I'd be willing to bet PP had attractions like these planned, put them to the side when they went to CBS, and then Cedar Fair picked them back up.

Given the facts that CF said they would not honor any capital investment over $20,000,000.

I'm sure that companies go to parks on a monthly basis trying to sell their product. They would be fools not to do so. But until the contracts are signed, it is nothing more than a coaster company trying to sell their product. So far there is nothing pointing that Paramount had anything to do with Behemoth or KI's 2009 project, and all the facts point that CF planned for it all.

And on top of that, do you actually believe that Paramount planned to add these attractions at the same time they were planning to sell the parks?

During today's conference call, Mr. Kinzel said major capital investments have a two to three year lead time, whatever that adds to this party!

Red Track!!! Cedar Fair uses red track alot!!!

I say it is destined for KI!!! It is what is going in the new area!!!

Um, okay. What color is the track on coasters like Superman: Ride of Steel? Or Tony Hawk's Big Spin? Or Back At The Barnyard Hayride? I never realized that Cedar Fair had an exclusive on red track.

Well everyone says that Firehawk's track is red but its maroon we don't have any red coasters except for when Top Gun was back when it first opened. So we will have to wait and see what happens you never know it might be our 09 addition

During today's conference call, Mr. Kinzel said major capital investments have a two to three year lead time, whatever that adds to this party!

Exactly, and Brown as I said in my post I believe PP had planned them then put them on hold when they split between Viacom and CBS.

I wonder if that had anything to do with the Winterfest tree barge continuing to sit there instead of being removed.

During today's conference call, Mr. Kinzel said major capital investments have a two to three year lead time, whatever that adds to this party!

Exactly, and Brown as I said in my post I believe PP had planned them then put them on hold when they split between Viacom and CBS.

So basically this new thrilling attraction is going to be under $20 million?

Not necessarily. The original planned cost could have been under $20 million. As I stated earlier, the cost of steel has escalated a great deal since the Paramount Parks acquisition...and neither the cost of labor nor other materials has remained static, either...

Love me some loopholes. But however much money they spend, I'm excited for the new ride.

Its not always how much you spend. Son of Beast for an example.

Well everyone says that Firehawk's track is red but its maroon we don't have any red coasters except for when Top Gun was back when it first opened. So we will have to wait and see what happens you never know it might be our 09 addition

Invertigo's supports!

Well everyone says that Firehawk's track is red but its maroon we don't have any red coasters except for when Top Gun was back when it first opened. So we will have to wait and see what happens you never know it might be our 09 addition

I'm not just saying KI. I mean all of Cedar Fair's parks!

I see what your saying my bad...

Hey guys...I was just over at screamscape and I have some good news...there are concept art photos of manta posted...and they actually show proof that they're legit...and the track is not red, ITS BLUE. The track at B&M could very well belong to KI!

Here's the link http://www.screamscape.com/html/seaworld_florida.htm

^That definitely boosts my spirits. But red? Can't we have something that really FITS into Rivertown? I know B&Ms look nice in vibrant color but what about fitting into the theme of an area?