Kenban

To my knowledge Steel Vengeance is scheduled to open with the park. But at least during my trips last year it never did. Even during CoasterMania last year it opened about an hour late. It cannot open until maintenance has signed off on the coaster. Maintenance just seems unable to get the work done on time.

You’re both wrong anyways, it’s 4 days . Before someone corrects me, I know it’s really 8, but the park does not count the extra 4 due to it being a community fair which is held at the park annually. ACE has an event at Strickers Grove this year, I believe July 29th. If your a member I recommend going, if not find a friend who is and go as a guest. It is one of the small business days for groups that cannot buy out the whole park.

The links down at the bottom of the website, it’s under “Park Info” > “Attractions Advisory”. The links are mostly the same as what’s on the drop down at the top of the page but there are a few extra that do not appear there.

There is a way to do bottled beverages that would be more difficult to abuse. Have a bar that is staffed at all times the lounge is open. You have to request your drink just like the chips and they open everything before passing it to the guest. You still get a bottle or can, but your not going to be grabbing 10 of them to take home. I am really not surprised the park is cracking down on abuse. On several occasions last year I watched people take bags into the lounge, everything from backpacks to the clear bags you get from stores and filled them with bags of chips. Personally I would also be happy with a pair of the Coke Freestyle machines.

I thought Deluge was already closed? I was under the impression it was standing but not operating. T3 was removed from the website and park map already. Pretty sure it’s not operating at all this year.

I believe both Vortex and now Bat have similar problems, metal fatigue. Arrow Dynamics requires Non Destructive Testing annually. If you are a seasonal park with freezing temperatures the instructions say to do the testing towards the end of the off season. The requirement is 20% of high G areas and 5% of the rest, typically you rotate what you inspect so every few years you have hit everything. When multiple problems are found you expand your search, if those areas also show defects you do 100% inspection. Every defect you find has to be repaired. I suspect The Bat needed 100% inspection. The problem is at some point you’re fixing too many issues, the steel is just too worn out. You can fix the problems, and increase inspections throughout the year, but realistically the track just needs replaced. More often than not when a ride reaches this point the parks solution is to remove the ride. I believe this is what Kings Island really meant when they said Vortex had reached the end of its service life. To my knowledge Arrow never specified an end of life for their coasters. They specified where and how to test for defects. They also provided guidance on how to perform repairs. But from the documentation I have seen and read when a park states a ride has reached the end of its life, that is due to the park or chains standards not Arrows. The claim going around for The Bat is that the incident with the wheel last year caused more damage than was originally known or found at the time. It’s very possible this is wrong. No one is ever going to discuss issues like this publicly. Metal fatigue is an area where a park running all the trains all the time ends up hurting the coaster. The more days a year and hours in a day the park is open it does more damage. Cycles do matter on metal fatigue. So do the forces that the ride produces, those swinging cars might be fun, but they are not easy on the track. IF I am right, this likely would have only been found a few weeks ago.

Whenever it comes time for The Bat to be removed it will likely be the end to the entire pathway. Reusing the design from Canadas Wonderland basically forced the station to be located in a very awkward location. A clean sheet coaster design would never have been designed like that and would put any station and queue closer to the rest of the land. It would take major changes like for instance Timberwolf getting removed to see another station in this area. Most of what I have heard I would classify as speculation and not even a rumor. I doubt it has to do with any part availability, while Arrow is long out of business, S&S took it over and have been very good at providing service. To me the most logical problem is there is something wrong with the track, which is still a huge list of possibilities. Track problems have caused the removal of Arrow Suspended coasters in the past. Except The Bat was the last Arrow Suspended to be built. It seems strange for it to develop problems before some of the older rides especially since Vortex at Canadas Wonderland has the same layout and opened 2 years before The Bat.

Congo Falls is likely to be removed soon(ish). The next coaster will not go in the old Vortex spot. I expect a large renovation of Action Zone in the next few years into a completely new land. Likely tied to my first two predictions. Although this might not be the next coaster, it might just be the next big coaster. Kings Island is the only park in the chain now without a wild mouse style coaster. The one which was just built at Cedar Point would fit perfectly where the old arcade is located between Zephyr and the Antique Cars, with the queue between the wild mouse and Zephyr. Boo Blasters will be replaced, the replacement will also likely be a shooting ride. When a coaster is built on the old Vortex spot I am expecting a dive coaster.

To my knowledge nothing is happening to either. The grand pavilion is a new restaurant for park guests. It has nothing to do with the convention space, and to my knowledge is not available for private rentals. The convention center does need renovated, but I do not believe that occurred over the winter. The Coliseum is more complicated, and something might actually be happening, just not for this year. The building feels like it is slowly being emptied. But it might also be a bad idea to read too much into the new arcade in the old Johnny Rockets. It’s a tiny fraction of the size of the existing arcade. It might just be a space filler so it’s not empty all summer, or could be something more interesting like an arcade bar, if I remember right the permits state only the dining room will turn into an arcade and the kitchen will remain unchanged. Also the arcade in the Coliseum was still intact during Winter Chillout this year, and there were signs of new arcade games being installed.

To my knowledge the rides have not actually arrived at the park yet.

That’s how I read it. As long as they stay in the park and are reachable by phone you can split up.

So far this years schedule looks much more thought out than last years. Instead of a Lunch the attendees are getting Dinner. The cruise timing only overlaps events which are designed for you to just drop by in a large enough window you can do all of them without concern. You have dinner at the Pavilion then have the Q&A immediately afterwards at the Pavilion. That last hour of the night with only Maverick and Steel Vengeance feels like unless they really limited attendance you’re looking at likely 2 rides total based on previous events. But that’s really my only big complaint. Overall massive improvement.

Looks like 208 Retrak to me. Should keep the original layout and trains and only replace the track itself. I always liked the layout, but even a few weeks after the ride opened the tracking was terrible, the trains moved around way too much and you could tell it would get rough. Since then it has gotten extremely rough, I still try to ride it every once in a while and then vow to not ride it again until it gets retracked. I would have preferred to see gravity group fix it with their precut track. But this will fix the ride permanently and I look forward to riding it later this year.

When I said wrong it was a response to "every single Wooden Coaster that received this kind of iron horse conversion has also came with major ride element changes within its layout". Which is wrong, not a single coaster which has had Titan Track installed had any major element changes, and that includes Boulder Dash. Also not a single one has had the entire track replaced, so far every Titan Track installation has been small sections, of a few hundred feet, and appear to only target problematic sections of coasters. It feels like your trying to combine what RMC has done with what GCI has done, when frankly they are very different. Its possible GCI will redo an entire ride at some point, maybe even with a radically different layout, but as of right now that has not happened. When RMC has installed I-Box track those have mostly been complete conversions into completely new rides, sure they are reusing portions of an existing coaster, but I do not consider that major of a change to be the same ride, except for Lightning Rod. For example, I view a conversion from Mean Streak into Steel Vengeance the same as a company tearing down a coaster and building a new one, except they reused a few pieces of the old ride to lower the cost of the new one. The work they have done on Tremors is much closer to the work done by GCI, and to my knowledge has not involved I-Box track, although 208 is completely steel. You are correct I was wrong about which coaster at Michigan's Adventure had the Titan Trick installed. I have zero issues with how Titan Track has been used so far. Personally at this point in time I still consider all of them a wood coaster and the same coaster they were before the track was installed, that might change if more steel track is installed. If it continues to replicate the original layout, in my view its the same coaster still, just no longer a wood coaster, it becomes a steel or hybrid coaster. I will play along with your hypothetical, if for some strange reason Cedar Fair used GCI to install Titan Track on a Helix on The Beast, I would likely continue to view the ride the same as I do today. I have ridden White Lightning both before and after the Titan Track and frankly while you can tell the track changes to steel and back, the ride is effectively the same, its slightly smoother, although I never felt it was rough before it was installed. If the same section of track needs replaced or repaired frequently. Something more than just regular maintenance needs done.

Titan track, like some of the types of track from RMC, replicates the shape of wood coaster track making it possible to switch back and forth between wood and steel track, also allowing the rides to keep running the same trains. It is steel track but to most riders the experience is effectively the same if all that is being done is to replace sections of track in an effort to reduce maintenance. This is just wrong. The first coaster to receive topper track from RMC was Tremors at Silverwood, it also has some 208 retrak also from RMC, they kept the original rides layout and just replicated the problem areas in steel. The first coaster to receive any Titan Track was White Lightning at Fun Spot. Six Flags has since used it on Predator at Darien Lake. Cedar Fair has done this same thing using Titan Track on Shivering Timbers at Michigan’s Adventure. All of these just replicated small problematic sections of the original layout, keeping the majority of the rides wood track. I am likely forgetting something as well. Boulder Dash is 4,725 feet long. Only 580 feet of track has been replaced by Titan Track. It is the first drop through the first curve. That’s it, the rest of the ride is still wood, the trains are the same, the layout is the same. Call it a hybrid now if you want. But the majority of the ride is still wood. Something you might notice about most of the coasters I have mentioned, they are almost all from CCI. The other one is from Dinn, a coaster company who built 10 coasters and only 4 remain. Wood coaster maintenance is expensive, and parks often make changes overtime to reduce those expenses. Six Flags St Louis removed the helix from the Boss. Worlds of Fun removed the helix from Timber Wolf. Installing small amounts of steel track can be viewed as preservation.

Which is worse? Replacing small sections of wood track so that the ride can keep the same layout and experience? Or changing the layout so that it is less aggressive and easier to maintain? I would prefer a park keep the ride as it was originally designed instead of doing what other parks and chains have done by removing elements. A section of steel track designed to replicate the wood track does not bother me that much.

They painted the walkway on the side of the track, your just seeing excess paint from that.

From a marketing stand point this makes a lot more sense. It really does a better job of showcasing the park. The view is fantastic, and I look forward to seeing what it looks like at night. But the conspiracy theorist in me immediately assumed the old Tomb Raider building will be torn down.

It’s not really an addition, but Worlds of Fun basically quietly announced 5 ride closures right before the start of the season. The 3 in the kids area are right next to each other and suggests either expansion or just straight replacement in the kids area. The other two feel unrelated, Falcons Flight is relatively new but I understand has been very problematic, and Monsoon which I believe is the same model boat ride as Kings Islands Congo Falls and is actually newer than Congo Falls. Feels a little strange to see right before the 50th anniversary starts. But my hope is this is the start of a large multi year capital investment.

Personally based on that I have a hard time calling the ride in 1972 which was moved from Coney the same ride as what was installed in 1924. It sounds like the ride was on at a minimum the 3rd set of cars and the second building. It sounds different then what happened in 1986 at Kings Island, but likely by the time it moved in 1972 nothing of the original ride remained.

Is anyone familiar enough with the history of Coney Island to know if a complete replacement of the Dodgem ride occurred between 1924 and 1972? I believe it moved and that the cars were replaced but I have no idea if it was completely replaced all at once like what appears to have happened at Kings Island in 1986.

This is the Ship of Theseus debate. If you replace the entire ship slowly over time is it still the same ship at the end even though every piece has been replaced. The same is true of wooden roller coasters. Given a long enough time frame the entire ride will be replaced as part of maintenance. When does it stop being the same ride? A few years ago Universal Orlando rebuilt Hulk in Islands of Adventure. The ride is the same model, same layout, same manufacturer, but the footers, station, and launch tube are basically the only original pieces. The track, supports, trains, electronics, etc were replaced. Is it the same coaster? Back to Kings Island and the bumper cars. When the ride was moved in 1972 did any components from 1924 still exist? I believe the ride had moved while at Coney and the cars were also likely replaced, and the KICentral page backs that up suggesting the entire ride was replaced while at Coney. There is one big difference between the bumper cars and the antique cars, continuous operation. The work on the bumper cars while effectively replacement appears to have always been considered maintenance. The antique cars closed and were removed for several years.

It was part of the ride rotation program, which is often blamed for why it was so rough by the time it made it to Magic Mountain. When it was still moving around I cannot imagine anyone even considered enclosing it. At Magic Mountain it was built next to the water park, the problem was it was so loud and disruptive to park guests the park quickly made the ride seasonal and only opened the coaster when the water park was closed. Which means it would open around October and close in April. I suspect if any plans to enclose it existed it would be an attempt at quieting the ride enough to operate year round.

I know, I just figured I would have some fun with the answer, because it was literally the prototype B&M coaster before B&M existed as it’s own company. The problem is most of the list in that first post were discontinued for good reasons, and the best of the bunch already have modern equivalents, or is it even really a model at all. The name space diver came from it being a very compact coaster, and that the train dived over and over again. The design was basically a copy and paste job, with the same element I believe 6 times in row, and a helix. The ride was intended to be mass produced and instead ended up having only one built that got moved around before being scrapped. B&M has the experience to make it totally smooth, but it won’t fix the repetitive layout, and this is not a style of ride it’s one specific layout. Here’s my thoughts on the rest of the list. The Arrow suspended coaster was in a way continued by Vekoma. They redesigned the trains and they don’t sway anywhere near as much. But that’s the thing, for maintenance reasons, and to extend the life of the ride you really need to not have the huge swing. Dragonflier at Dollywood is a great modern example. Chance Ride Toboggan, I think this is the only ride I have ridden where the operator explained before I rode that you have to move your head in a certain way to prevent injury when they yell at you during the ride…. These things are terrible, maybe more fun to look at than ride. Intamin Accelerator, from a safety perspective it really just needed redesigned. I understand the desire, and enjoy riding them. Maybe the best choice on the list to come back, but also unlikely, an LSM requires so much less maintenance. The S&S air launch is in some ways comparable, it does not appear to be able to reach the same high speeds or launch as heavy of a train but it can be very intense. Intamin Prefab wooden coasters, from a ride layout perspective they were great. But the track never held up, and maintenance is expensive. From talking to wooden coaster designers the problem was how the track was designed and assembled. The huge metal joints between track segments allowed for easy assembly but also created a lot of problems. Not sure it’s fixable without moving to a design more like what Gravity Group is doing. A modern version already exists, it’s already being done by Gravity Group, and both RMC and GCI are making steel track in the style of wood track. Intamin Suspended Catapult, I take it to mean a launched invert. Is it discontinued or just renamed and rarely ordered? Intamin built a new launched invert only a few years ago, Dueling Dragons in China, it’s a dual tracked coaster, one is inverted and one sit down. Gerstlauer has a launched invert under construction right now and it opens in a few weeks. Intamin Swiss Bob, bobsleds could come back, I doubt it but it’s possible. Not many were ever built, Mack rides also built them. If you want a good newer one maybe check flying turns at Knoebels. Intamin Wing Rider, maybe someone should tell Intamin? It’s still listed as a current product, and I am pretty sure they would make it if someone ordered one. Morgan Hyper coaster, Morgan went out of business, but their successor is Chance rides and while they seem to have very little luck selling anything, just about every coaster company will build a hyper. Schwarzkopf really did his designs differently, and no one has really built anything similar. No good answers here. S&S wooden coaster, not sure it’s worth it, just use GCI, or GG. Most of them were designed by Alan Schilke, and ran PTC trains. TOGO Ultra Twister, I have seen one but never ridden one. They look like a bad idea. I plan to go back to Nagashima Spa Land, during my last visit it was down for maintenance, maybe I will ride one before they all disappear. TOGO looping mouse, it’s a wild mouse with a loop. Plenty of companies build wild mouse coasters, adding a loop should be possible assuming a park is willing to pay. The trains would need redesigned, and these rides have so low capacity is it worth it? Zierer Launch Tower Coaster, this refers to a specific element of one ride. The launch up the top hat on Wicked at Lagoon. Is it really a model of coaster and is it really discontinued?

Except they did. Intamin subcontracted Space Diver to Giovanola. Walter Bolliger and Claude Mabillard, who a few years later went on to found B&M, worked at Giovanola as engineers, and they both worked on the ride’s design, and were responsible for the track design. Space Diver was the first coaster with 4 across seating, and basically used what we now know as B&M box track.