The Beast Rider

You need to change your name to "Noclue". (Man I'm in a bad mood today.) I'm not the one that has "Noclue". There are people at KI that have "Noclue", but I'll leave it up to you to figure out which ones.

It is interesting that he left out the Cincinnati and Sandusky markets. I wonder, could it be that the guests in those markets have found other parks that are less expensive to attend, and allow more fun to be had? Since both Kings Island and Cedar Point apply trim brakes to their coasters to the point that they almost valley during the ride, and have obscenely high food and drink prices, maybe people are finally taking notice.

standbyme KIfan73 Avatar cat13 Vortexfan92 jessie8 jamesv7 taynes and daughter BavarianBeatle dare-to-fly touchdown62 (and friends, don't know screen names yet) Cory Butcher KIcook304 Gordon Bombay Ogrmac (and friend) derek9312 (and dad) timw725 (and GF) iChase (and camera) markalan (+2 friends) CoastersRZ PKIVortex and Family Captain Picard pkiboy The Beast Rider

Including the ride itself I guess. The entire ride moves notably slower...but since it's me and I have a "scewed sense of speed" it must be my imagination that it takes the top-most portion of the ride much slower than it used to (to the point of wondering at times if the ride will crest the hill.) No, a lot of people did not round it up to 60MPH. If the ride always was set for 0-54, then why does the KI website itself say 0-60? The first time I rode FOF this season, I thought it was a mislaunch because it felt like it was not going to crest the hill. It did, but barely. Directly from the visitkingsisland.com website: Flight of Fear Face your darkest fears as you are catapulted from 0-60 mph in just 4 seconds through 4 inversions on the world's first linear induction launch coaster! Named the best new ride by industry experts during it's opening season, don't miss your chance to feel the pulse-pounding excitement this year!

They wouldn't put a trim brake on it. They save all those for The Beast. and Vortex. and SOB. and Racer. OK, I see your point. Have you noticed the additional ones that have been added to Beast since the 4th?

I must have missed it too. It seems things are getting worse instead of better!

For some reason it still bothers me how on the sign the red is on the left and blue on the right, when really the blue is on the left and red on the right. It just seems like one of those details that should have been noticed. Oh well, maybe I'm just used to disney. Here is an even better one for you. In the station, the cabinet where you put your stuff so you don't have to take it on the ride is backward. The red cabinet is on the blue side, and the blue on the red side. I guess they wanted to match the sign to something!

All that information can be supported how? It certainly is not from your "favorite" list on another site: I find it difficult to believe that for such a coaster enthusiast you would have AE as a number 5 coaster compared to some of the steel coasters in Florida. And as far as The Beast being ranked in the Golden tickets. That poll is about as valable as a used piece of paper. But if you think about it; Beast is by far the oldest on that list, and with the exception of Phoenix (1985) is the only coaster not built in the modern era (1995- present). And it still made the list? And with the trims? So does that mean Beast is better than all the wooden coasters out there in the World, except the 7 above them on the list? That really sounds like that is the point you are trying to get across. OK, I'll bite. AE is (was) in my top five only because I really don't like looping coasters. It currently resides in my number 8 spot. FOF is my number 3 only because of the launch, even though it has been neutered in recent years as well. Believe what you will. All of the information that I posted can be easily supported with information that I have in my possession. I don't feel the need to post every detail about myself online, as some obviously have too much time on their hands to go digging for it. The Beast would easily be in my top five wooden coasters if the trims were gone. As it is now, there are many coasters that have more of a fun factor to them. I still love The Beast, but it could be (and was) so much better without trims. Another interesting side note, I see that you are from Erie, PA. After re-reading some of the information that you posted about various items in the maintenance department at KI, and KI's budget, I find that interesting. You must be getting really tired of paying $4 or more per gallon of gasoline for that long drive to work every day.

Yes, The Beast was one of the best liked wooden coasters ever, but where is it in the popularity charts now? Number 8 on the Golden Ticket last year? And what might I ask were the numbers 1-7? I believe that they are seven trimless coasters. I find that interesting. Also, where would they have room on the bottom of the trains for skid brake and braking fins? That seems a little crowded to me. The earth is flat? That's news to me. I'm sure that dare-to-fly knows better.\ As far as block brakes being used to trim a ride, it happens every day at KI. There is not a reason to slow the train to a crawl in the midcourse brake, if the other train is out of the way. If it stops the ride for safety reasons, that is one thing. All they are using them for is a trim brake. Yes, I said it too. By the way, I have been around longer than The Beast, and I also predate the trim on Racer. I never really worried about The Beastie (which I know is now called FOC, which is also silly) but the trim there is also pointless. I have ridden The Beast without your famous trims, several times, even several times in one day. It has been a long time now, too long actually, but I believe the last time was around year 2000. The forces that the ride generates are tame, even untrimmed, compared to some of the bigger wooden coasters out there. Also, in case you were wondering, I have been to parks and ridden coasters east of the Mississippi all the way from Canada to Florida, at many different parks than a Cedar Fair or even a Paramount park, and I still have never seen a park that has more coasters trimmed than CP or KI. Those are the two parks that completely overuse and overkill (there's that word again) on the trim brakes.

Are you kidding? You are just trying to split hairs to argue something that is pointless. They added brakes to the ride within the first 12 months of the rides' operation, and the brakes have since lasted almost 30 years later for a good reason, they are obviously necessary for most people. It is certainly not unique to Beast that modifications were made shortly after a new coaster is built. Are you going to try and argue that the inversion on Maverick did not need to be removed since some people rode it with the inversion? Technology back in '79 is nowhere near what it is today, so yeah, things were obviously changed since day one. And even in today's World, things are still changed early in the life of a coaster. So please tell me, what trimless ride experiences, and what events, do you have on Beast? I would love to hear your first hand opinion. And since we are now splitting hairs, I love your name "The Beast Rider" with the signature "Welcome to Cedar Fair, the trim brake capital of the world!" Did you know that CF has added no brakes to Beast? Just an FYI. To be perfectly honest, I don't know anything about the inversion on Maverick, other than it was removed. Apparently, you didn't read the sarcasm in that post. However, I do love to split hairs. I do know that CF has not added any brakes to Beast, and I suppose they technically have not added any to Racer, Beastie, FOF, or SOB either, even though the trim on those coasters are now in continuous use (which they were not before CF). You have to agree, they certainly have not removed any, either.

KI has more operating days and more operating hours which equals less time to provide the maintenance needed to have a trimless ride. What I understand to be Beast's history: April 1979- Beast opens, with 4-bench trains and traditional lap bars. Mid 1979- Brakes added to first drop 1980- Brakes added to helix drop. Early 80's- 4-bench trains replaced with 3-bench trains, due to tracking problems. These trains featured traditional lap bars once again. Late 80's- Headrests added to trains. Early 90's- Ratcheting lap bars added. I believe the headrests were covered with a vinyl material in this year. Early 2002- Skid brakes replaced with magnetic brakes in every trim location, except for the first drop. Mid 2002- Magnetic brakes replaced skid brakes on first drop. 2004- Retracting seat belts added. What I question is: how can a person know what kind of forces, Beast in this discussion, a coaster has w/o trims since the ride has always had brakes magnetic or skid? The reason why I bring it up, is that smaller coasters (like Blue Streak at CP) does not have trim brakes on the ride at all. Yet larger coasters, ones that exert more force, have trims. Well, how very interesting. You say that Beast opened to the public with no brakes on the first drop nor the helix drop. I thought I read in argument after argument that no brakes were added to Beast that were not original? Hummmmm. As far as knowing the forces that Beast can produce, you neglect to remember the coaster events in which all the trims were disabled. Trimless rides don't you know. There weren't very many, but yes, they did happen.

One other thing about the food at HW, it is actually very good! As well as cheap! How about that, something else KI could learn from. I'm not saying that HW is perfect by any means, don't get me wrong, they have their faults too. But the coasters are great (untrimmed), the food is good and reasonably priced, and free Pepsi. If only some of these things could come to KI.

I do think the operators can turn the brakes on or off. I know they can on Gemini, I have witnessed that myself. Magnum has much the same setup as far as the trim is concerned, so I would think they would have an on/off switch, which by the way, should always be set to off.

Well said bear! Although, I have to point out that The Beast has had the same trains since day one, just heavily modified to accomidate different seating arangments, different lap bar mechanisms, different congifgurations of padding and headrests, and so forth. The chassis on all of the cars are original, yet were cut down when they were modified from four rows to three. Many other parts of the trains are also original. You are positively wrong about The Beast having the same trains since day one. The original trains were red blended into yellow and had 4 seats per car instead of the 3 seats today. Guess I will have to do the research and dig up the photos of the original trains. They were too long and way too heavy and were replaced somewhere around year 3 with the 3 seat trains. I believe that Gordon is right about the trains. The trains have been modified a number of times over the years. I also believe the chassis of the trains is the original, but has been heavily modified to remove the fourth seat. Also, you don't have to look back to the beginning of The Beast notice the slowing down. It is easily noticeable just from a few years ago. It really started to go downhill with the addition of the magnetic trims.

And as Gordon has previously mentioned, with skid brakes or mag brakes, there is no way to turn them off without removal. That still remains the single best option.

For 100 bucks, it better be!!

Lets see, numbers of parks run trim brakes on coasters to save on maintenance costs every day (KI did on The Beast since day one). Every day hundreds of people come to ride those coasters and ever year those coasters provide great rides and those folks keep on coming back. Awful way to run an amusement park? If properly maintaining a ride, keeping the riders safe, all while providing a world class coaster ride is an "awful" way to run a park, then I'd really, really like to know what a better way is. They also used to have trimless rides for coaster events at the park. I can't believe they would adjust them every day, but who knows. Stranger things have happened. The Beast does run quite slow first thing in the morning. They run Magnum with the trim off early in the day. As for Firehawk, I wondered if there was a trim brake on it. I was talking to a maintenance guy one day at the park about Firehawk, and he mentioned a trim brake. I didn't think about asking him where it was, I wish I had now. By the way, a properly maintained ride would not need a trim brake. It is called maintenance. $100 hamburger? Ouch!

No, I don't believe I will. The trims are there so the park can save money. Trims do not make the ride more enjoyable. I have the same right to complain about them as you do. So to quote yourself, you shut up. KIBeast, I have a link to the video on my other computer. I'll upload it as soon as I get there. I know why they took the skids off. Skid brakes are a dying breed, and it is understandable why.

The magnetic brakes are the problem. There is no reason for such braking in the first place. I agree with the poster above that The Beast has been neutered, and you don't have to look back as far as the beginning. Even when Paramount replaced the skids with magnetic, the braking in the brake shed was no where near as strong as it is now. Even the brakes on the first drop and the second hill have been added to. The Beast could be a world class coaster, if it would be allowed to live. By the way, your link above does not work.

When, and HOW were you so friekin' lucky. Any time I ride it, it seems that they slam the brakes on to almost a crawl. Or even stop it in the case of Tuesday, though I'm not implying that one time was intended. Plus, that's not quite possible, because there is a small magnetic brake up there that undoubtedly did a little damage, but I'd take what I could get. I'd love to know how you got to skip the trim. YLB. Not that I'm defending Cedar Point, and on that point I must be clear, but to whoever brought up the issue of Mean Streak turning back some of the trims. Those also are not magnetic. And to another post, there could not have been a magnetic brake on Maverick last season or I would have noticed that much braking. Unless of course it was much, MUCH less of a brake. I'm not talking about the brake right before the second launch. There is a magnetic brake just out of the tunnel and around the corner on the way up the hill that puts a great big yank on the train on its way past. There was no yank there last season, and the second part of the ride was much faster. And....wouldn't it be easier to just dial the launch down than stick a trim immediately following the launch? As to Mantis, I must have been on it during the portion of the season that they turned off the trim, as I certainly would have noticed that, being of the "Forums Against Ridiculous Trims" or "FART" ilk! I'm sorry to tell you, but the brake right after the launch on Maverick has always been there. Now, I have heard that it's doesn't appear to be braking as hard as it did last year, but I assure you, it's always been there. I saw many threads over at Pointbuzz last season where people were complaining that it was a waste to have a 70mph launch followed by a brake. I'm sorry to tell you, it was not there when it opened. It may have been added shortly after, but it was not there at ride open. Not only is it a waste, it is ridiculous. As for the SOB midcourse, dare-to-fly - remember what we saw from Eiffel Tower? Maybe there was more going on than meets the eye.

You are very much correct on that one, it is their park and they can do with it as they please. However, it doesn't stop us from complaining about it. Maybe in some small way they will listen. Rome wasn't built in a day, and trim brakes won't be removed in a day, either. You have to fight for what you believe in, or no one else will.

I guess I fall into that "ilk" category as well. I do not like being refered to as an "ilk" and find it very offensive. As for the brakes, I was at the park yesterday, and like normal, The Beast was running his usual slow self all morning long. Also, for the small amount of time that the Red Racer was open yesterday, the pointless trim brake on the turn around was on, and much harder than the Blue Racer. Blue was winning every race (which there were precious few of to begin with) by at least ten seconds, even though they were tied going up the hill into the turn around. Son of Beast actually came to a stop in the midcourse brakes, Vortex almost did, and of course FoF stopped as well. Gotta love those brakes. Interpretor, it might not matter if dare-to-fly can live with it or not. It does not matter, either, your opinion on the price of food and the nickels argument that you keep bringing up. We are simply discussing a subject and venting our frustration about a chain of parks (two parks in particular) that have some really world class coasters. Most of which are braked to death. As far as the trims being used to save maintenance, that is exactly what they are using them for, and there is not a reason for it. They knew the cost of maintaining a wooden coaster when they bought the park. What they need is a good maintenance crew. We wouldn't want maintenance to have to maintain something, now would we? And yes, they have been increasing the braking more and more over the last few seasons, and by my estimation, there is no way that Beast approaches 70MPH, even late in the day with a full train. No, I can't prove it with hard numbers, but only my own personal experience.

How about The Beast:Gone Steel Or, since it is a Cedar Fair park, Trim Brake:The Ride would be a good fit! *Runs for the storm cellar*

Exactly!! They tout the speed of The Beast as approaching 70 MPH on their website. I would really like to see that. I guess 50 is approaching 70 in someone's twisted view. There are times especially early in the day when you begin to wonder if the train is going to valley in the tunnel it goes so slow.