It’s interesting that the original Bat (the one opened in 1981) was designed to have corkscrews. The original ride was to feature two corkscrews-the first being before the second lift hill, and the second one being before the final turn. Some of the original design can be seen as an Easter Egg in the Orion queue. I used NoLimits 2 and recreated it.

Here is The Bat as originally designed: https://youtu.be/GvH-SCRIGcE 

 

Where's this info coming from?

If you mean that Arrow was trying to initially design suspended coasters with inversions, you'd be correct.

 

Whether or not they'd be put in Bat on initial designs seems a bit out of the loop when KI probably didn't know what they had when trying to get the first suspended coaster.  

47 minutes ago, silver2005 said:

If you mean that Arrow was trying to initially design suspended coasters with inversions, you'd be correct.

 

Whether or not they'd be put in Bat on initial designs seems a bit out of the loop when KI probably didn't know what they had when trying to get the first suspended coaster.  

There are blueprints for the original Bat showing a corkscrew, with the helixes in a different color, suggesting an alternate layout should the buyer want it.

^Are we really doing this again?  

Show your work. 

I think you're just  messing with us every time you come up with some witty information and fail to provide sources just to have us ask you time after time to do so.  A No Limits design doesn't count. 

51 minutes ago, silver2005 said:

^Are we really doing this again?  

Show your work. 

I think you're just  messing with us every time you come up with some witty information and fail to provide sources just to have us ask you time after time to do so.  A No Limits design doesn't count. 

 

Theres the alteration.

^Are we really doing this again?  
Show your work. 
I think you're just  messing with us every time you come up with some witty information and fail to provide sources just to have us ask you time after time to do so.  A No Limits design doesn't count. 

Go ride Orion and see for yourself. The original layout had dual inversions. Yes, I said Orion.
Here is one of the full-size inversions built.

Photo credit Kings Island Blog/Sit On It

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35 minutes ago, silver2005 said:

^Are we really doing this again?  

Show your work. 

I think you're just  messing with us every time you come up with some witty information and fail to provide sources just to have us ask you time after time to do so.  A No Limits design doesn't count. 

Yes, those are two corkscrews originally designed for The Bat’s layout. I have seen the actual physical blueprints (and more that I can’t even discuss here) with my own eyes and can confirm this. 

The prototype model featured the corkscrew inversion, which was the one KI execs rode. After riding it they were sold. They planned to incorporate inversions into the ride but with it being so new and complex I'm sure they opted to not add them. I couldn't imagine the additional maintenance issues it would have had if it featured inversions.

I don't think it's unreasonable for users to ask for evidence and more information, especially when there's been a lot of content created without any evidence / sources provided whatsoever. I also don't see any benefits for users to be coy or super secretive with the information they share.

Regarding what @Oldschool75 is referencing, there are blueprints for the original Bat tucked into the Orion queue. You can see them in the below screenshot, from this video. It's a little hard to tell, but there are are corkscrews overlaid where the two helices are.

I don't think it's unreasonable for users to ask for evidence and more information, especially when there's been a lot of content created without any evidence / sources provided whatsoever. I also don't see any benefits for users to be coy or super secretive with the information they share.
Regarding what [mention=4930]Oldschool75[/mention] is referencing, there are blueprints for the original Bat tucked into the Orion queue. You can see them in the below screenshot, from [/url]. It's a little hard to tell, but there are are corkscrews overlaid where the two helices are.

And the final ride’s plans I obtained show just the helixes with the inversions removed. The plans also have notations of the ride’s behavior in the each element.

Great recreation gforce1994

It’s also ironic to note, that in order to make the ride work, one would need to have banked turns that lead into the inversions. 

33 minutes ago, Oldschool75 said:

And the final ride’s plans I obtained show just the helixes with the inversions removed. 

 

 

I'm sure. Did I miss the proof somewhere?

Just now, JubJester said:

I'm sure. Did I miss the proof somewhere?

I don't see anyone saying @gforce1994 is inaccurate in his information. I think people are asking for an explanation of where and how he got his information. That is part of the TOS. 

A simple explanation would go a long way for members to understand where he is coming from. If the easter egg in the Orion queue is all that was used, just state that. 

I think members appreciate his creations, but to give the thread credibility he needs to give context and explain the sources beyond a picture in a queue.

 

20 hours ago, gforce1994 said:

It’s interesting that the original Bat (the one opened in 1981) was designed to have corkscrews. The original ride was to feature two corkscrews-the first being before the second lift hill, and the second one being before the final turn. Some of the original design can be seen as an Easter Egg in the Orion queue. I used NoLimits 2 and recreated it.

Here is The Bat as originally designed: https://youtu.be/GvH-SCRIGcE 

 

Oh! I didn’t know you are the one who runs Coaster Nation.

I'm sure. Did I miss the proof somewhere?

I have them. I’m not at the liberty to share them at this point.


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On 10/31/2020 at 9:53 AM, IndyGuy4KI said:

A simple explanation would go a long way for members to understand where he is coming from.

^ This. 

There are two members here. One who likes to make wild claims (and hey, if they're right, many here love to read about it, just show some work) and another who has to come around after to say why they're done with this site (yet keeps showing back up) or hint that they have some exclusive information. We get it. Someone slid you some behind the scenes stuff. 

I, for one, find this little tidbit about The Bat to be fascinating. However, in a day and age of misleading content all over the internet (especially on social media), I want to ensure that what I'm reading is true. It's great that it is, but maybe instead of the condescending attitude, certain members can use that effort to foster some good conversation here. Trust me, you two are far from the only ones to ever get a "peek behind the curtain."

Meanwhile, thanks to @TombraiderTy and @KIghostguy for promoting friendly context and thoughtful conversation regarding the park's history. 

Kings Island just released this video on there YouTube page. It has some pretty neat footage of the original bat as well as a unique look at some other attractions like KCKC. I recommend you guys give it a watch if you haven't already. 

Edit: Does anyone know what the white and red tent at 1:51 is? 

  

3 hours ago, Gordon Bombay said:

^ This. 

There are two members here. One who likes to make wild claims (and hey, if they're right, many here love to read about it, just show some work) and another who has to come around after to say why they're done with this site (yet keeps showing back up) or hint that they have some exclusive information. We get it. Someone slid you some behind the scenes stuff. 

I, for one, find this little tidbit about The Bat to be fascinating. However, in a day and age of misleading content all over the internet (especially on social media), I want to ensure that what I'm reading is true. It's great that it is, but maybe instead of the condescending attitude, certain members can use that effort to foster some good conversation here. Trust me, you two are far from the only ones to ever get a "peek behind the curtain."

Meanwhile, thanks to @TombraiderTy and @KIghostguy for promoting friendly context and thoughtful conversation regarding the park's history. 

If one of those people you are speaking of is me. Well, I don't make wild claims, I'm not looking for attention like some others. Also, if I feel like giving this site another chance that's my prerogative. I do have some exclusive info sometimes, which if I'm asked not to share, I don't. I know there are others out there that are privy to information as well. Some even here, well until they are chased off.  I'm was not being condescending with my previous post. I simply stated that a document does exist with specific information that I have in my possession but I'm currently unable to share it at this point. When I'm able to share it, I will. Good day.     

50 minutes ago, DiamondBeast said:

Kings Island just released this video on there YouTube page. It has some pretty neat footage of the original bat as well as a unique look at some other attractions like KCKC. I recommend you guys give it a watch if you haven't already. 

Edit: Does anyone know what the white and red tent at 1:51 is? 

  

Hey there! I believe you’re speaking of the Brass Ring restaurant, eventually becoming Juke Box Diner.

2 hours ago, Oldschool75 said:

I simply stated that a document does exist with specific information that I have in my possession but I'm currently unable to share it at this point. 

We get it, bro.

17 minutes ago, Gordon Bombay said:

We get it, bro.

No need to be rude. @Oldschool75 is an expert in KI history as well as @Shaggy. 
 

It’s ironic that you make claims about my articles being wild claims as you commit the same act you accuse me of. 

16 minutes ago, gforce1994 said:

No need to be rude. @Oldschool75 is an expert in KI history as well as @Shaggy. 
 

It’s ironic that you make claims about my articles being wild claims as you commit the same act you accuse me of. 

I’m not sure you grasp the concept of irony. And if you’re going to reference @Shaggy, I’d sincerely recommend a deep look at the way he authors, references, and discusses things. Quite a few things you could learn. 

2 hours ago, Kyle Kruthoffer said:

Hey there! I believe you’re speaking of the Brass Ring restaurant, eventually becoming Juke Box Diner.

I never wouldve guessed it was a restaurant. It looks nice. It seemed to fit in coney very well. Was there indoor seating? 

45 minutes ago, Gordon Bombay said:

I’m not sure you grasp the concept of irony. And if you’re going to reference @Shaggy, I’d sincerely recommend a deep look at the way he authors, references, and discusses things. Quite a few things you could learn. 

First off, respect is a part of the TOS. Second off, I was not mentioning Shaggy just to reference him. I brought up his name since he has also posted a lot about park history.  Third, it is hard to discuss stuff on this site because everything I say gets thrown back at me.  

6 hours ago, gforce1994 said:

First off, respect is a part of the TOS. Second off, I was not mentioning Shaggy just to reference him. I brought up his name since he has also posted a lot about park history.  Third, it is hard to discuss stuff on this site because everything I say gets thrown back at me.  

First and recent example:  "Adventure Express got retracked!"  "Adventure Express had at least 6 sections of track replaced!"  Ultimately, as confirmed by several others--track work was one or two spots and no more than 15' in each spot.  

Regarding the original The Bat--you could have just said from the beginning:  "If you go thru the Fast Lane queue for Orion, pay attention.  It looks like there is a blueprint for the original The Bat!  Based off that, I did a recreation in NoLimits and included the inversions.  What do you think?"

Of course you are going to get called out or have things thrown back if you don't do what is asked from everyone else--cite your source.  Be believable.  Don't act like a child throwing a temper tantrum when someone asks you to back up your information.

And as far as people leaving sites like this,  in my anecdotal observation, when people leave in a huff they usually come back and feel like they should be treated well because they came back to give it another chance.  It's usually better to leave quietly and then slide back in when your anger has dissolved than to storm off only to rise again.

 

 

33 minutes ago, BeeastFarmer said:

First and recent example:  "Adventure Express got retracked!"  "Adventure Express had at least 6 sections of track replaced!"  Ultimately, as confirmed by several others--track work was one or two spots and no more than 15' in each spot.  

Regarding the original The Bat--you could have just said from the beginning:  "If you go thru the Fast Lane queue for Orion, pay attention.  It looks like there is a blueprint for the original The Bat!  Based off that, I did a recreation in NoLimits and included the inversions.  What do you think?"

Of course you are going to get called out or have things thrown back if you don't do what is asked from everyone else--cite your source.  Be believable.  Don't act like a child throwing a temper tantrum when someone asks you to back up your information.

And as far as people leaving sites like this,  in my anecdotal observation, when people leave in a huff they usually come back and feel like they should be treated well because they came back to give it another chance.  It's usually better to leave quietly and then slide back in when your anger has dissolved than to storm off only to rise again.

 

 

Actually I talked to the mods before posting it. They told me to post video only, with no article attached that referenced the Orion line. If you doubt it, contact them.

34 minutes ago, gforce1994 said:

Actually I talked to the mods before posting it. They told me to post video only, with no article attached that referenced the Orion line. If you doubt it, contact them.

Hmmm. that's interesting because a moderator said in this thread that sources are part of the TOS you seem very fond of (when you think it's in your favor).

3 minutes ago, BeeastFarmer said:

Hmmm. that's interesting because a moderator said in this thread that sources are part of the TOS you seem very fond of (when you think it's in your favor).

The original article that was with this video included the source. Unfortunately, the mods only allowed the video, removing the background context.