Just saw the video posted from Theme park Thrillgeek on YouTube of PTC revealing their new trains. I think they would make the ride a lot better, and hold true to its original trains. What is your opinion?

Sent from a signal coming out of the Vega system.

I was wondering when PTC was going to come out with a single bench design.  Other than that, is there anything else different about them compared to their 2/3 bench stock?  Compared to Millennium Flyers? Timerliners?

New trains, cool, but whats so cool and new about them. The video just showed the video, no tech specs, no claims, nothing.

They remind me a lot of the trailer-style two-bench PTC trains that, until recently, were featured on Predator and Texas Giant. Neither were particularly well-received by enthusiasts, although I never experienced either personally. I've also never ridden PTC's one-bench trains, either, so perhaps I should reserve judgment.

PTC has offered one-bench trains for a while (as in years) now. It's not extremely clear to me what distinction these trains have from the original one-bench trains, except that they have a B&M-style "zero car" and that PTC has approved them to go through inversions.

Let's just say the trailer style PTC trains were horrendous.

And that's being very kind.

I doubt The Beast will be getting new trains anytime soon. The park seems quite happy with the current trains, and the ride is still quite popular.

Ha!  The video said the "world's most comfortable wooden coaster trains"...and yet the model has seat dividers and the orange lapbars.  I don't think so, PTC.

I have always found it somewhat amusing that Philadelphia Toboggan Company was primarily in the ride business with coaster trains and parts as a sideline...while Philadelphia Toboggan Coasters....

Note also they show new things--such as steel coaster trains--that often generate very few sales.

It's parts and replacements that have kept Tom Rebbie in business--not so much sales of innovative new trains.

See also what became of Morgan coaster trains aka California coaster cars...

So what's so new and innovative? B&M has new train styles and they clearly show improvements, I haven't seen a single fact sheet from this.

If The Beast were to get said new trains, wouldn't The Beast's ACE Landmark get taken away? Just wondering? 

Exactly. About the only thing that has appeared to change is they made a one row bench car, versus a two or three bench car.  It also looks like they might have made the cars articulated (so that the front of a car is actually supported by the back of the car ahead of it (much like on most steel coasters, although Flight of Fear, and Backlot, and Adventure Express are exceptions).  Just look at the Millenium Flyers and Timberliners.  Those trains look a lot more advanced and the overall ride experience is a lot more enjoyable (I haven`t riden a ride yet with Timberliners).

 

Rhyano, The Beast`s Landmark status was given to it as a way to acknowledge a ride that has had an impact on the industry.  It would not be taken away if Beast ever gets new trains.  I think you are thinking of the ACE Classic designation, of which The Beast does not qualify for since it has seat belts.

I agree with that ^ 100%

 

If anything, I'd like to see Millenium Flyers on The Beast.

 

Personally, I'd like The Beast to stay the same forever  But I do understand that change is inevitable at some point.....

 

With that being said, Millennium Flyers are my personal favorite when it comes to wooden coaster trains, and as long as the ride isn't altered much, I wouldn't mind seeing them installed on the ride someday. ​

My short answer to the original question is, " I doubt it". 

 

In the last decade or so, what wooden coasters have switched their trains?

 

I'm missing some, but here are the ones I can think of:

 

Hersheypark Wildcat (PTC to Millennium Flyers)

Gwazi (PTC to Millennium Flyers)

Son of Beast (Premier to Gerstlauer)

Voyage (Attempted PTC to Timberliner, back to PTC)

Hades (PTC to Timberliner)

Ghostrider (PTC to Millennium Flyers)

 

We've also seen at least 5 wooden coasters convert to steel by Rocky Mountain.

 

The lack of coasters "upgrading their trains", and the mixed results of the ones that have, tell me that there are likely some big reasons why most parks are sticking with their old PTCs.  Maybe the new trains are too expensive, or don't ease the track maintenance burden enough to justify themselves?  Maybe capacity is reduced too much?  For our Beast, I'm thinking that reduced capacity would be a dealbreaker.  The current 3 bench PTCs hold 36 riders, I wonder how many an equal length Millennium Flyer train would hold?  28? 30?  

 

That all said, the Ghostrider switch (that is happening now) might carry a lot of weight as to whether Cedar Fair (or other chains) consider trading in their old PTCs.

 

Finally, for what it's worth, I rode The Beast over a dozen times this past season (mostly in non-wheel seats).  No ride was uncomfortably rough, and most were the SMOOTHEST Beast rides I've ever had. 

Kings Island is great with keeping up with maintenance, but I wonder how much of The Beast if any will be retracked this year? 

^^
In a weird twist- something I noticed- one of the rides showed in the PTCI360 video was Hades 360 using these trains, making me wonder if that was just a test because the Timberliners have failed there as well, thus Mt. Olympus may be changing the trains on that ride AGAIN. Reviews of Hades 360 haven't exactly been glowing. Though I don't think these new trains will do any different really from the Timberliners, as the problems Hades has had seem to be something new trains may very well not fix.

If The Beast were to get said new trains, wouldn't The Beast's ACE Landmark get taken away? Just wondering?

No. Coaster landmark status is not in any way affected by trains. Any coaster could be chosen as an ACE Coaster Landmark, even steel coasters (Maggie is a Coaster Landmark, for instance). ACE Coaster Classic status, however, is dependent on the design of the trains (and other factors). The Beast, in its current state is already ineligible for this award due to its having backrests, individual lap bars, individual seatbelts, and seat dividers. Woodstock Express once was eligible, and had the award, but changes to the trains (individual seat belts, I think?) revoked its eligibility and ACE rescinded the award.

 

Exactly. About the only thing that has appeared to change is they made a one row bench car, versus a two or three bench car.  It also looks like they might have made the cars articulated (so that the front of a car is actually supported by the back of the car ahead of it (much like on most steel coasters, although Flight of Fear, and Backlot, and Adventure Express are exceptions).  Just look at the Millenium Flyers and Timberliners.  Those trains look a lot more advanced and the overall ride experience is a lot more enjoyable (I haven`t riden a ride yet with Timberliners).

 

Rhyano, The Beast`s Landmark status was given to it as a way to acknowledge a ride that has had an impact on the industry.  It would not be taken away if Beast ever gets new trains.  I think you are thinking of the ACE Classic designation, of which The Beast does not qualify for since it has seat belts.

My first experience with Timberliners and my first experience with Millennium Flyers occurred on the same day earlier this summer (on Hades 360 at Mt. Olympus and on Renegade at Valleyfair! respectively, earlier this summer). The Timberliners offered one of the most uncomfortable coaster experiences I've ever had, with the restraint pressing HARD into my hip bone on both sides. And I'm a skinny little dude. I'd hate to imagine the discomfort for a larger person than me. The Millennium Flyers were nothing short of fantastic.

Hades 360, so I hear, is regarded as a very rough coaster too already. Not sure is Renegade became the same way though, making my point moot.

If I were a park bean counter I'd like to see a little more change than that to justify the expense of new trains. I'd be more likely to ok Millennium Flyers as they are already proven and do make a substantial difference in track maintenance. I'd also think that they'd see how they go on Ghostrider before they add them to other existing woodies.

 

 

*Side question. What is the deal with GG and CCI woodies? When they are running well I find them to be the best and most intense of all wooden coasters. They seem to age terribly. Is the problem just that the intensity wears the track worse than others? Poor engineering? Is it that they use PTC trains? I'd doubt that it would be the lumber quality as CCI and GG do not actually build them, right? 

Let's be tactful. CCI and GG almost always substantially underbid GCII.

Less upfront cost...

Are you essentially saying you get what you pay for?

 

If that's the case, I wonder what it is that they do more cheaply which results in rougher rides down the road.

Southern Yellow Pine costs way less than Douglas Fir...quality of items specified is proportionate with cost, etc.

You really know your stuff. Knowing this, I wouldn't cheap out and go with GG if I could afford GCI.

Note that the Knott's wood coaster was not contracted by Cedar Fair, but by the Park's previous owner...

Shivering Timbers was as well, right?

Yep.

And it rides like it, too.

Then again, the trick track was just awful...

Just noting that Thunder Road was Southern Yellow Pine and that it was likely grown in the Carolinas.....

I do not know if PTC used SYP for all coasters.

The Beast was redwood.

Beast was built in house I believe. That also explains the red color of Beast that I figured was wood stain.

What about Racer? Looking unpainted wood, looks like it ain't redwood.

Yes, out of redwood. 

See Rideman's post here:

http://coasterbuzz.com/Forums/Topic/the-wood-used-in-wooden-coasters

He knows what he is talking about.

Neither Racer nor Beast are redwood.