It's all about perception. Even I..a seasoned coaster rider (first ride in the front seat), was a little flipped by the trains the first time. I always trust their design but riding 200 ft in the air on a train that is little more than seats bolted to a piece of diamond plate sheet metal with no sides does create a little tension. Obviously the trains are safe, but they offer so much open air, and so much room in each individual row that some may get the feeling that they will fall out.

These trains were designed to give as much freedom and open air to the rider as possible, and I have no doubt that the engineers addressed all angles of this train. Surely safety was the first priority, and they analyzed carefully whether or not a seatbelt is necessary. The clamshells have two mechanisms that lock the restraint in place. I understand some people's apprehension about the design of the train, because quite frankly it feels a little like there isn't a train under you at all. It's just part of the show.

It's all about perception. Even I..a seasoned coaster rider (first ride in the front seat), was a little flipped by the trains the first time. I always trust their design but riding 200 ft in the air on a train that is little more than seats bolted to a piece of diamond plate sheet metal with no sides does create a little tension. Obviously the trains are safe, but they offer so much open air, and so much room in each individual row that some may get the feeling that they will fall out.

These trains were designed to give as much freedom and open air to the rider as possible, and I have no doubt that the engineers addressed all angles of this train. Surely safety was the first priority, and they analyzed carefully whether or not a seatbelt is necessary. The clamshells have two mechanisms that lock the restraint in place. I understand some people's apprehension about the design of the train, because quite frankly it feels a little like there isn't a train under you at all. It's just part of the show.

Good post, thank you! I do expect that whenever I get to ride DB, I'll be somewhat apprehensive due to the open-air nature... I was tense the first time I rode King Cobra back in the day for the same reason, and DB is shall we say a little more intimidating

Not exactly the most comfortable trains in the world:

http://www.rcdb.com/ig94.htm?picture=9

Hey I like Kumba's trains lol. They never bothered me.

My first Diamondback ride was in the back and I had my hands up goign down the first drop of the ride and I had to put them down! I swear I was going to fall out of the coaster. This ride is just so great. I felt like I was unsafe almost the entire ride but I knew I was safe. Is that what thrill rides are about!??? Kings Island def. have them-selfs a winniner here. Something that the park has been need for quite some time. I hope more rides of this caliber are to come to the park years down the road. Great job Kings Isalnd!!! I can't stree that enough. This year def. has the Cedar Fair feeling to it. The music the nice cobble stone pathway. Glad tosee you just didnt black top the area. The nice overall feel of the entire area and the fact you didn't add something to Action Zone! Hopefully the next area of the park is that dead section in the back of Coney Mall or Boomerrang bay. A few more upgrades and I think the park will be on par if not better than Cedar Point.

Not to mention the riders are tilted slightly back...a safety feature first seen on Nitro.

Kumba type trains will not be seen again from B and M.

I think that is still why Kumba is one of the more forcefull traditional sitdown style coasters B&M ever built. The tilt or recline in the seat lowers the riders center of gravity and allows the rider to tolerate g-forces better and also lessens the effect of g-forces because of the lower center of gravity. Then again the reclined seat is much more comfortable for the rider and provides a much smoother experience than the flat seats.

My first Diamondback ride was in the back and I had my hands up goign down the first drop of the ride and I had to put them down! I swear I was going to fall out of the coaster.

Reminds me of this picture from the kiDiamondback.com photo gallery. Not a single hand up - everyone gripping hard!

Perhaps they are all lawyers' kids. Giggle.

Not to mention the riders are tilted slightly back...a safety feature first seen on Nitro.

Kumba type trains will not be seen again from B and M.

I think that is still why Kumba is one of the more forcefull traditional sitdown style coasters B&M ever built. The tilt or recline in the seat lowers the riders center of gravity and allows the rider to tolerate g-forces better and also lessens the effect of g-forces because of the lower center of gravity. Then again the reclined seat is much more comfortable for the rider and provides a much smoother experience than the flat seats.

I don't know about your idea. Nitro, which has this tilt is extremely forceful, especially with positive g forces, in the helix, hammerhead and valleys of its hills.

From offride videos of kumba, its apparant that it travels much quicker through its elements than newer B&m loopers. I think this is the reason to account for it being less forceful.

All of these posts are making me appreciate Tig'rr at Indiana Beach. For those who don't know, it has absolutely no restraints whatsoever!

Flyer, who likes such.

I just read a TR on coasterbuzz about Indiana Beach, and it sounds like they added seat belts to it.

As I had hinted at earlier. . .

See post 35 of this very thread:

http://www.KICentral.com/forums/index.php?...st&p=289574

Terpy, who likes to state things clearly and let others read past them, sometimes

I think that is still why Kumba is one of the more forcefull traditional sitdown style coasters B&M ever built. The tilt or recline in the seat lowers the riders center of gravity and allows the rider to tolerate g-forces better and also lessens the effect of g-forces because of the lower center of gravity. Then again the reclined seat is much more comfortable for the rider and provides a much smoother experience than the flat seats.

I don't know about your idea. Nitro, which has this tilt is extremely forceful, especially with positive g forces, in the helix, hammerhead and valleys of its hills.

From offride videos of kumba, its apparant that it travels much quicker through its elements than newer B&m loopers. I think this is the reason to account for it being less forceful.

The tilt or recline has nothing to do with a change in g-forces experienced by the rider. The amount of Gs the rider experiences is based on the train speed and radius of track curvature. By tilting the seats back slighty, this doesn't reduce the g-forces, but rather it reduces the strain that those Gs exert on the rider. With tilted seats, the rider's body can handle higher Gs because they are more evenly distributed throughout the rider's body, instead of just at the base of the spine. It's all about ergonomics, people.

...It's all about ergonomics, people.

So B and M are ergonomics people?

Terpy, running for the exit....stage left.

B&M definitely has the most ergonomic trains out of any present roller coaster manufacturer, so yes, I'd say they are ergonomic people.

Oh, I don't know. I personally think the Millennium Flyer trains from the geniuses at Great Coasters International, Inc. are the most ergonomic trains out there, but I'm funny like that. I know the retrofitted PTC's with the individual ratcheting orange lapbars are certainly not a contender for that honor.

I despise those orange lapbars... is there a need for that "wiggle" on the | part of the upside-down L shape?

If you mean on the PTC's, yes...it is an attempt to lessen the wiggle space for smaller riders to be able escape being restrained...If you mean the part that rises above the rest of the L, ride operators can use it as a handle to check restraints.

A lot here....

Do what terpy?

Good read.

2 things: 1, most of these posters don't seem to be here anymore.

2, having ridden DB many, many times (still my favorite ride in the park) I don't think the seatbelt makes a difference, at all, in the ride experience.

^^^ I don't think it makes a difference in the ride experience... I do think it makes a difference in the loading of the train...

Personally, I think the seatbelt should be modified to be less "buried" in. Right now, you have to reach way behind you compared to other rides, in my opinion.

 

Another option would be a FoF-style "backup lock" belt, but that wouldn't stop an ejection caused by a misplaced lap bar/larger rider.

Has the stacking been mentioned? Guest in line call the ride diamondstack.

That's funny. I've never heard a member of the GP call it that.

Now around here.....

That is where I learned originally.

I once yelled "Stack!" after the traditional "when I say "Diamond", you say "Back"!" chant. A ride op jokingly threatened to impale me over that.

The only seat belts I don't like are Flight of Fear's and Backlot's, but only because they are awkward to put on and off.  Seat belts on any ride do not deter my experience.  

Backlot at KI has no seatbelts currently.

The only belts that really bothered me were on the Gliders before they banned snapping (don't bother me now because I haven't ridden since then). I don't like needing to wait to be let out, even though it is a good idea for the kiddies I guess.

Ill have to agree with everyone else. DB was the ride that took the longest for me to not hold on at some point (mainly that first wonderful drop). And to be honest that lack of restraints, to me, adds a whole different level to the ride and i believe why to this day its probably one of my favorite coasters ever. 

I wanted this since day one. I like a good new fashion seatbelt on my death machine thank you. I don't distrust Diamondback per se... I distrust my dumbass. And the GP.

Banshee is nice and all, but I just wish I could go back to the days that I could easily ride Diamondback 10+ times per visit.

It used to feel like you would continuously move through the queue, now Diamondback takes so much longer to get on.