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Since CF has taken over: 4 coasters: 230'/ 80mph, 7 inversions & longest inverted, wood coaster that is enjoyed by most people- including enthusiasts, 300' 91mph How those can be considered scaled back compared to: BLSC, FoF and a historically failed SoB is just mind-blowing. ....but to each their own.

I honestly think it's kinda silly, that you think it's kinda silly. KI was considered one of CPs main competitors before they took ownership of KI. So, the notion of CF wanting to keep KI's rides and overall guest experience scaled down because of them wanting CP to maintain its brand of best amusement park seems VERY SIMPLE to me. The simplest explanation is that in 16 years of ownership CF has yet to put in a record breaking attraction with the exception of longest invert in the world which no one really cares about. Before CF took ownership, prototypes and record breakers were common at KI. The simplest explanation is that while CP has been loading up on record breaking attractions while KI has been getting the scaled down family models. The simplest explanation is Cedar Fair has removed 3 roller coasters at KI and installed 5. That's only + 2 new coasters in 16 years. The fountains are now less than they were. The questionable removal of Vortex, which was a park ICON and many believe could have run for many more years and has left that area of Coney very lackluster, is yet another example. These are all FACTS. Not speculation. The body of work speaks volumes without any of the other white noise distorting the truth. I see better than I hear.

So, what I'm hearing is that *you* are the Dippin' Dots guy. Tell us your secrets.

No it wouldn’t. The reason they are such low capacity is not because they can’t hold a lot of people. I’ve operated the wheel that’s at Kentucky kingdom which is similar to CPs. If you were to fill the entire wheel up, the capacity would be quite high. The reason you can’t is due to the balancing of the wheel. If you fill it up, you need a continuous flow of people to keep it full, otherwise the wheel falls out of balance and will essentially “free spin” and the motors will error out as the weight is out of tolerance. This continues until the heaviest part settles at the bottom. In the 6 passenger gondolas like the 150ft Giant Wheel at KK. The standard operating tolerance was +\- 2 gondolas. So for example the loading platform had room to load 5 gondolas at once. If you were just starting the day, you could only load 2 gondolas. Once those got to the top you could load 4 and so on and so on. The caveat though was you could never let it get out of tolerance so if the line died suddenly and you had 5 gondolas unloading you would have to stop it in a position to where only 2 gondolas could unload and the other 3 would have to go around again while you unloaded 4 and then again for the 3 and again for the 1. That’s 3 extra rotations on a cycle to unload if no one is there to replenish. Now imagine if all 4 sets of 10 were loaded. A nightmare. That’s why the giant wheels are never used to their full capacity. You’d need thousands and thousands of people to be able to maintain it

Why should we believe that? Because they told you that when you were doing the research for your book? Of course they did! I guess it's totally coincidental out of the soon to be 6 Cedar Fair Gigas, that Kings Island happens to have the only scaled down one. Keep drinking that Cedar Fair KI Kool Aid. "With all things being equal, the simplest explanation is usually the correct one."

That would be CINCINNATI. And there is a lot more to do than KI, chili, ball and IKEA.

I agree with the above posts highlighting all the Cincinnati Area has to offer besides KI. I can think of the Zoo, the malls (Kenwood/Deerfield Towne Center/Eastgate, Liberty Center and everything else over in that area, etc. Heck- one could say Forest Fair Mall is a tourist attraction!), and Newport on the Leevee (RIP Barnes and Noble). As someone said above, there are unique food options like LaRosas's, Greaters (their peanut butter cookies are amazing!), Skyline/Gold Star and Marx Bagels (in Blue Ash). And as echoed above, there are also concert venues and museums downtown (and of course sports teams). There is a lot to see and do around here if you know where to look And @brenthodge, the only recent KI collabs that I've seen and experienced are the Reds Hall of Fame Grille (and also certain days where Reds players talk at International Showplace) and the unique animatronic display that was put on by Kings Schools for Winterfest located (inside the Coney gift shop (next to the restrooms and near the Coke Freestyle building).

Thanks - was just going to highlight a few of those things - Would those keep an out of towner here to visit KI a few more days? Maybe not, but it 1) there was better PHYSICAL connectivity between Cincinnati and KI to get people into the city easier, and 2) better coordination around events in Cincinnati - such as an "All American Reds BaseBall" event in the Coney section w Reds players and memorabilia, a "Game Day Tailgate" (kinda did this one) around big football game weekends, Maybe try to coordinate something around Carnivale with the art museum to highlight International art from the countries represented by the festival... I don't know - there are lots of other events that they could even do ticket "bundles" with such as the Zoo - or now that the rides are gone and they compete in different segments, develop a relationship with Coney mgmt to highlight the "Birthplace of KI" and give a discount as an incentive t extend your stay in the "Beautiful new Kings Island Inn" for an extra day to visit old Coney. Again, it doesn't seem like an avenue they want to go down right now

I think that’s a fail on KIs part in that they ARENT marketing the whole region more. There’s the zoo, pro sports, great urban dining and exploration, great theatre and cultural experiences. I’d venture that If they WANTED to they could bring back that “destination” mentality with a “Disney Springs” style development, more partner lodging and dining as well as cross promotions with other area attractions. I thought it could’ve been heading that way years ago with the movie theatre, but that didn’t really last. Even if they developed the water park into a real, stand alone attraction worthy of a second gate admission I think they could really develop the whole property.

Also consider that CP is a destination park. As stated above, they HAVE to have record breakers there. They have to fill resort rooms. The town/city is build around CP. KI began as a resort but has morphed into a regional park. So they rely on season pass holders. I mean, it's Cincinnatti. Nothing really to do there except go to KI, eat chili, see a game and go to IKEA.

I grew up during the coaster wars. You know what CP learned? Don't try ANYTHING new until someone else does and KI was the usual suspect. Being the first, especially back then, didn't always mean being the best. Take the original Bat for example. Iron Dragon is STILL standing to this day. Also King Cobra which has been removed and although Mantis is no longer at CP it's track still is being used today. I was fortunate enough to ride the original Bat and it was INTENSE. Loved that ride but had they known to do banked turns (a lesson they learned from building The Bat) then maybe it would still be there today (of course we wouldn't have had Vortex). Also talking about firsts there was also SOB (we'll just leave that be) and of course Flight Commander. I will admit that The Racer, Beast and Vortex & Viking Fury were all successes that were "firsts" so it CAN happen, just that the track record for those who look at history it always seems best to let someone else be the test bed and then install something learning from the mistakes. I've always seen KI as a family park. Look at Aerial Chase. CP has nothing like it. They seem to be going more for the family-friendly park where as CP is more of a destination. You come to KI for 1-2 days, you go to CP for 4-6 (that's what the resorts are for). Either way I think CF is doing a great job (much better than Paramount) and don't feel as if KI is getting the "red-headed stepchild" treatment.

"many believe" is not FACT, is is speculation. Record breakers are for "fan boys". I get that we are all "fan boys" to one extent or another, but the average KI guest doesn't walk into the park and decide to ride one ride or another simply because its 10 feet higher or 10 feet longer. Cedar Pointe has long been a park that caters to the Fan Boys because it is very dependent on the clientele that will travel from 500+ miles away to spend 3-4 days in the park. KI is a park that very much caters to its niche market, families located within a 50 mil radius of the park who make a handful of trips to KI every summer. KI and CP serve 2 very different clients. CP gets more bigger investments because it needs those investments to keep the fans boys in Missouri coming back every couple of years for a couple of days. KI gets more family oriented investments cause it needs that family that lives on the 275 beltway to come back 3-4 times each summer. To get to 3 removals, you have to include SOB. I'd hardly call that fair to call that abomination of a creation CP's fault. So if we are talking about a +3 over 16 years, that is right on par with the typical 5 year development plan you will find at Carowinds, Canada's Wonderland and Kings Dominion, and far better than Valley Fair or numerous other parks in the chain. You see what you want to see. KI is far more than just rollercoasters and if the Execs are doing anything less than working to unlock the most potential out of each of their parks then they are doing both the company and themselves a disservice. As I said in my prior post, these are no longer the days of Dick Kinzil with a very specific interest in Cedar Point, many of the execs today didn't grow up on Cedar Point specifically, their goal is and should be the company as a whole. I'm pretty sure there would be more than 1 large investor (not to mention SEC regulators) that would be a little more than miffed if it was discovered the executives were doing something other than aiming to provide the best return on their investor dollars. Top level execs typically have stock options in the company, that affects their personal bottom line as well.

I don’t know of many parks that intentionally burn the wood from a wooden coaster to “dispose” of the wood and admit to that. The Facebook post evens says that a burn permit was issued. Seems like a EPA violation to me.

Wont argue that point, which is likely why they haven't built on. The return on investment would see to be very low on such a project. Seemingly, it would only work if you had a fancy light package that could be used on it as part of the night time ambience of the park/area it sits in. I've never been on one of those revolving eyes, how do those work loading and unloading? Would it be possible to install such a "ferris wheel that could just continually slowly rotate, such that you unloaded on one side of the platform as a worker got in and made sure everything was cleaned out, and a new riders would enter the other end of the platform a few seconds later. Kind of like how Boo Blasters never really stoops (or I guess rarely stops). Would that improve capacity? Everyone gets one really slow spin around, and the light package is added for nighttime display?

The notion that the top execs at Cedar Fair want something less for any of their parks so as to ensure they don't outshine Cedar Pointe is kinda silly. If you wanted to accuse Dick Kinzel of that, OK, I'd get that a bit, he grew up in Toledo and first worked at Cedar Pointe before eventually working his way up to CEO. He has a house just outside its property. Kinzel has since been replaced by a man that grew up in NY, became an accountant and worked for Disney for a number of years. He was later replaced by a man who grew up in Kansas and worked his way up thru the Virginia side of the parks. Meanwhile, there have been rumblings that management is looking to move headquarters out of Sandusky and down to Charlotte. From a pure business stand point, financially I see how that makes sense, its probably much easier to recruit and retain top level employees if they are based in Charlotte rather than Sandusky. One could certainly maintain such a move would take the heart out of the company, but I've digressed from the main point. The simplest explanation is that CedarFair (not Pointe mind you) game Kings Island a budget and a roughly guideline on what to install. and left it to Kings Island management to take that budget and guidelines and tweak them to what they envision the parks best interests to be. It is in both KI's best interest as well as Cedar Fair's best interest for the park to thrive in the best way possible. CP and KI are two similar, yet very different parks with very different clients. The more complicated explanation is that top level Execs are scared CP would lose its luster to a park 300 miles to its south and therefor prevent that asset from delivering the best return possible.

I would guess also that Cedar Fair had the capital allocation established and could not change that easily. Thus, they used the established budget and worked with B&M to build a coaster on that ground within the budget (which you covered in your research). For the 50th, I like the updates to The Beast and maybe they can also get the animatronics working on Adventure Express. I wouldn't mind seeing a special event that lasts well into the night to commemorate the 50th along with a larger fireworks show. Maybe some banners showing past rides (placed close to where the rides sat).

The budget was $31 million. Yes, they had to work within it, but they had enough money to do what you said. Like I said, it was a choice. The length is because they thought that this layout proposal had the best pacing. You might think it's dumb, but that is the reasoning. Why should I believe it? Because I sat across a table from Mike Koontz and was looking him in the eyes when he was telling me this. It lines up with his vision for the park. It was corroborated by other people I interviewed. And why do you think they would lie about this and not anything else I talked about in the book? People can misremember...but I do not believe any of the people I interviewed lied to me. I do believe that people should feel however they want to about stuff that gets built, but the notion that Cedar Fair is purposely making Kings Island worse off or that they purposely cheapened out on Orion just isn't supported by any known facts. The management teams at both the park and corporate levels adore Kings Island, its history, and its legacy, and are committed to investing into the park and making it the best it can be. I just wish that love had translated into the 50th Anniversary logo!

Orion being "scaled down" was Kings Island's choice. They wanted a giga, but they also wanted a ride that people of all ages would be able to ride over and over again comfortably. It had nothing to do with Cedar Point.

You think building a $30 million dollar coaster with a 300 foot drop is downgrading the park?? LOL x a million.

Another idea I thought of is how about keep the Crypt building and add an Intamin motorbike coaster, but have it be horses (sorta like Pony Express at Knotts) and have the crypt building be the station/launch building, but paint and freshen up the exterior to make it more like a barnstable or something, but keep the layout and features simple with like two launches so reliability is less of a concern as Hagrids has like 7 launches and a drop track and stuff.

I worked at the donut stand during the holiday festival in 2006. It was a fun experience - those donuts were quite popular and we even managed to sell some Dippin' Dots as well (people were asking for them so the park put a Dippin' Dots cooler in the stand and added it to the register).

I don't get a negative vibe from you at all. I think you are extpressing what you wish the park had done, like many of us do about many subjects. I think we all want the best version of KI there is and what we see as the best, the leaders don't. I enjoy your posts! Thanks, I consider that a great compliment. Maybe I should have worded it differently, but pre 2017, I did enjoy the reveal of the tower and fountains. But it was stale as not much pizzaz had been added or maintained beyond that. When the pop music was changed in 2017, for me, the magic returned. And then the renovation built on that. I now look forward to the atmosphere on IS as much as riding Diamondback, and take the time to experience it each time I go to the park.

They don't really have much choice there if they want to add something that big. Other parks manage with parking garages, like Universal Orlando. That's not to say its not a nightmare but so is trying to get out of the Cedar Point parking lot at the end of the day.

Guess you could keep Okoberfest and rename AZ to Ire-Land.

Combine them ane just theme AZ to OF